If there was a National Vote on Equal rights for gays, what would you do [W:72,96,331

re: If there was a National Vote on Equal rights for gays, what would you do. [W:72]

Guy Incognito said:

No, I have no doubt that opponents of gay rights are sincere in their bigotry.

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I am on your ignore list? At least you see the Quote notification!

re: If there was a National Vote on Equal rights for gays, what would you do. [W:72]

Henrin said:

They already have that protected, don't they?

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Nope.

re: If there was a National Vote on Equal rights for gays, what would you do. [W:72]

X Factor said:

1.)I'd be more confident this was the case if there weren't already recently decided cases saying that florists and cake shops cannot refuse to serve same sex weddings, even on religious beliefs.

2.)Apparently their first amendment rights doen't really mean much.

3.)What guarantee is there that the same line of reasoning will not be applied to churches?

4.)Guess even just asking that makes me a conspiracy nut huh? :roll:

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1.) well first that has nothign to do with the first amendment and churches, 2nd the same thing has happened with many other forms of illegal discriminaiton. if gays did exist those people breaking the law and violating rights would still happen.

2.) they mean plenty until you break the law or violate the rights of others just like ever other right

3.) again the constitution make it so and again if gays never excists churches ALREADY discriminate and its legal to do as a church. They already turn away straight couples, interracial couples, minority couples and couples simply not religious enough now. They have that right and i support it.

so if you have any fears about that, you should already have them NOW, because nothing would change. Church is not a public business.
Religion only goes so far, its the same reason st lukes hospital cant deny me spouse rights or visitation if i was married under jewish religion or by a singing Elvis, their right to religion and discrimination only goes so far. In the public realm you have to play by public rules.

4.) of course not, "asking" is fine lol
and i dont really believe you think that a CHURCH will get sued and be forced to do a marriage.
if you do i have to ask WHY? theres absolutely no logic behind it. Heck it was just this summer that church denied a black couple and that was they church they go to. Nothing happened but a news story because there is no legal ground to force a church to marry anybody.

if but to answer your question if you honestly think its possible then yes on THIS issue i would have to label you that.

also be clear, in not saying retards might not TRY lol but like the others they will fail.

re: If there was a National Vote on Equal rights for gays, what would you do. [W:72]

Guy Incognito said:

Is there some other kind of person who opposes gay rights?

That's a rhetorical question. The answer is no.

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well i think that needs better defined

if you personally oppose them that doesnt make you a bigot

if you are actively fighting to STOP them and you vote against them, then yes i call that a bigot.

re: If there was a National Vote on Equal rights for gays, what would you do. [W:72]

Guy Incognito said:

It's out there. Look at Loving v. Virginia, for example.

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that was a case for equal treatment under the law and discrimination it wasn't to establish marriage as a right

re: If there was a National Vote on Equal rights for gays, what would you do. [W:72]

Bodhisattva said:

Are illegal alien homosexuals who were married in Mexico before illegally crossing the US border recognized in case law as well?

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only if they are nonbiological step cousins, twice removed who are white, were born in africa and then gain citizenship here technically making them African americans.

re: If there was a National Vote on Equal rights for gays, what would you do. [W:72]

AGENT J said:

only if they are nonbiological step cousins, twice removed who are white, were born in africa and then gain citizenship here technically making them African americans.

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What would happen if a white guy born in the Congo referred to himself as an African American?

re: If there was a National Vote on Equal rights for gays, what would you do. [W:72]

AGENT J said:

1.) well first that has nothign to do with the first amendment and churches, 2nd the same thing has happened with many other forms of illegal discriminaiton. if gays did exist those people breaking the law and violating rights would still happen.

2.) they mean plenty until you break the law or violate the rights of others just like ever other right

3.) again the constitution make it so and again if gays never excists churches ALREADY discriminate and its legal to do as a church. They already turn away straight couples, interracial couples, minority couples and couples simply not religious enough now. They have that right and i support it.

so if you have any fears about that, you should already have them NOW, because nothing would change. Church is not a public business.
Religion only goes so far, its the same reason st lukes hospital cant deny me spouse rights or visitation if i was married under jewish religion or by a singing Elvis, their right to religion and discrimination only goes so far. In the public realm you have to play by public rules.

4.) of course not, "asking" is fine lol
and i dont really believe you think that a CHURCH will get sued and be forced to do a marriage.
if you do i have to ask WHY? theres absolutely no logic behind it. Heck it was just this summer that church denied a black couple and that was they church they go to. Nothing happened but a news story because there is no legal ground to force a church to marry anybody.

if but to answer your question if you honestly think its possible then yes on THIS issue i would have to label you that.

also be clear, in not saying retards might not TRY lol but like the others they will fail.

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I honestly think it's possible based on recent cases, so call me whatever name you want. I don't think any of that is a strong enough reason to deny SSM rights, but I'd like you all to stop acting like nobody rational would have that concern, but obviously that's not possible. I believe in freedom of religion . So fvcking sue me.

re: If there was a National Vote on Equal rights for gays, what would you do. [W:72]

If two gay people want to marry, it has zero impact on your day to day life.

Really...it does not affect you, unless you are the type of person that lets someones happiness make you unhappy.

re: If there was a National Vote on Equal rights for gays, what would you do. [W:72]

X Factor said:

For most people who are in opposition, it is a matter of sincerely held religious beliefs. You might have difficulty understanding that since most of your positions do not seem all that sincere.

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yep, you are correct

this is way i said his definition definitely needs expanded on.

but the the best citizens and politicians can separate their morals/religion from issues like these. Especially americans should be able to if they understand the country.

My religion could never lead me to stop others from having the same rights as me. Its basically like the Pope said. He doesnt endorse gays getting "religiously" married but he certainly doest think they should be denied the same human, legal and civil rights as others.

If theres an religious issue at hand its between them and god.

re: If there was a National Vote on Equal rights for gays, what would you do. [W:72]

AGENT J said:

WOW

thank you for making a completely failed post so fast, i thought it go at least to page two

translation: you are deflecting and cant read the OP
also the fact is there are currently laws and case precedence court rulings that make marriage and gay marriage a right.
SCOTUS as determined it to be a right 14 times.

now instead of deflecting, going off topic and ignoring facts feel free to vote or continue exposing your failed post.

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can you please give a link showing that a court or law has said marriage is a right ive looked and the cases ive read about marriage was about equal treatment under the law and anti discrimination

re: If there was a National Vote on Equal rights for gays, what would you do. [W:72]

Guy Incognito said:

No, I have no doubt that opponents of gay rights are sincere in their bigotry.

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even when you almost get it right you get it wrong guy, your posting record is stunning

re: If there was a National Vote on Equal rights for gays, what would you do. [W:72]

trfjr said:

I've looked only thing I have found is equal treatment under the law but nothing saying marriage is a right granted under the law
so until some one can give a link showing there is a law giving the right to marriage this thread is pointless

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another failure, please keep the streak going
fact remains its a right and its a law many places
fact also remains in the OP i said fantasy and i said not to wast time using failed arguments.
your post is like a quadruple failure.
you lose to facts again, your mistake.


lets use a similar mentally retard failed argument, until somebody can show me where it says you have the right not to be raped i say it pointless charging people with that crime. i have a right to happiness, rape makes me happy and theres not right saying you cant be raped! <end sarcasm>

re: If there was a National Vote on Equal rights for gays, what would you do. [W:72]

AGENT J said:

yep, you are correct

this is way i said his definition definitely needs expanded on.

but the the best citizens and politicians can separate their morals/religion from issues like these. Especially americans should be able to if they understand the country.

My religion could never lead me to stop others from having the same rights as me. Its basically like the Pope said. He doesnt endorse gays getting "religiously" married but he certainly doest think they should be denied the same human, legal and civil rights as others.

If theres an religious issue at hand its between them and god.

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I disagree that to be a good Christian (or whatever) religion should have absolutely zero impact on your life or way of thinking.

re: If there was a National Vote on Equal rights for gays, what would you do. [W:72]

X Factor said:

How did adding the third option change what you implied in the second?

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not sure what you think i implied? its accurate for what would be the case

but to try and answer you, the third option gives you the way out

for people that simply find themselves in a moral dilemma they simply dont vote which is the right thing to do in this case especially as an american.

re: If there was a National Vote on Equal rights for gays, what would you do. [W:72]

X Factor said:

Kind of weighted the poll choices there, J. Might as well have added "because you're a homophobic douchebag" to the second option. :lol:

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If the shoe fits.

re: If there was a National Vote on Equal rights for gays, what would you do. [W:72]

Bodhisattva said:

What would happen if a white guy born in the Congo referred to himself as an African American?

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he would get some funny looks but he would be totally accurate.

re: If there was a National Vote on Equal rights for gays, what would you do. [W:72]

AGENT J said:

not sure what you think i implied? its accurate for what would be the case

but to try and answer you, the third option gives you the way out

for people that simply find themselves in a moral dilemma they simply dont vote which is the right thing to do in this case especially as an american.

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So people should not vote their conscience to be "good Americans"? You know what, people's political actions are always influenced by there own system of morality. You don't think environmentalists try to get laws passed forcing their morality onto others? Happens all the time. I'm curious what makes you the arbiter of which beliefs are valid to act on and which aren't.

re: If there was a National Vote on Equal rights for gays, what would you do. [W:72]

X Factor said:

1.)I honestly think it's possible based on recent cases, so call me whatever name you want.
2.) I don't think any of that is a strong enough reason to deny SSM rights, but I'd like you all to stop acting like nobody rational would have that concern, but obviously that's not possible.
3.) I believe in freedom of religion .
4.) So fvcking sue me.

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1.) theres no logic that supports that.

the recent cases you are referring to are night and day, apples and oranges. Hell its apples and coconuts. they arent even in the same galaxy as law, rights and precedence.

in the cases you are talkgin about it was a public access business breakign the law and illegal discriminating.

none of that fits the CHURCH and they church already does this every day.

SO yes on that one issue id have to label you a conspiracy theorist. If you can give me one, just ONE logical reason why you think it could happen ill but it.

2.) IMO i dont think its a rational concern, but i woulnd use it as a tool to deem one an irrational person in general, those are two very different things.

3.) me too and its something id fight for just as hard as equal right and thats the point. Equal rights for gays doesnt put freedom of religion in danger any more than anything else.

4.) nah you havent broken any laws or violated any rights

re: If there was a National Vote on Equal rights for gays, what would you do. [W:72]

Your Star said:

If the shoe fits.

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Thank you. That's added so much. I totally see now why even giving the issue some thought is completely wrong.

re: If there was a National Vote on Equal rights for gays, what would you do. [W:72]

X Factor said:

I disagree that to be a good Christian (or whatever) religion should have absolutely zero impact on your life or way of thinking.

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thats good because i didnt say that at all, not even close
i never said ZERO or referred to "life" and "way of thinking"

please focuse on what i said
i said

the best citizens and politicians can separate their morals/religion from issues like these. Especially americans should be able to if they understand the country.

as in voting for equal rights

re: If there was a National Vote on Equal rights for gays, what would you do. [W:72]

AGENT J said:

1.) theres no logic that supports that.

the recent cases you are referring to are night and day, apples and oranges. Hell its apples and coconuts. they arent even in the same galaxy as law, rights and precedence.

in the cases you are talkgin about it was a public access business breakign the law and illegal discriminating.

none of that fits the CHURCH and they church already does this every day.

SO yes on that one issue id have to label you a conspiracy theorist. If you can give me one, just ONE logical reason why you think it could happen ill but it.

2.) IMO i dont think its a rational concern, but i woulnd use it as a tool to deem one an irrational person in general, those are two very different things.

3.) me too and its something id fight for just as hard as equal right and thats the point. Equal rights for gays doesnt put freedom of religion in danger any more than anything else.

4.) nah you havent broken any laws or violated any rights

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Really don't know if I give a **** about what you think of me any more.

re: If there was a National Vote on Equal rights for gays, what would you do. [W:72]

X Factor said:

Obviously you understood my point so I'll address this to you. I've seen it said a number of times that people opposed to gay marriage should simply not participate in one (which, btw, I think is a fair statement). How is it justifiable to then support actually legally forcing someone who doesn't want to, to participate?

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It's just public accommodations logic. They feel that if you get a certain kind of business license that you lose all rights to association, labor, property, and religious rights. They don't really care that people don't consent to do business with certain people because apparently those business owners don't have any human rights. They don't find anything wrong with forced association and forced fraternity. They think that is how you actually protect the rights of people.

re: If there was a National Vote on Equal rights for gays, what would you do. [W:72]

X Factor said:

1.)So people should not vote their conscience to be "good Americans"?
2.) You know what, people's political actions are always influenced by there own system of morality.
3.) You don't think environmentalists try to get laws passed forcing their morality onto others? Happens all the time.
4.) I'm curious what makes you the arbiter of which beliefs are valid to act on and which aren't.

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1.) no if it violates rights and deny others the same freedoms and rights they have
if i think blacks, women and jews are evil, NO i should not vote based on that.

if they do they are completely ignorant hypocrites who totally dont get what this county is about.

2.) "influenced" yes
but should never be ruled by especially if the direction goes agaisnt the law, rights, freedom and constitution etc

3.) im sure they do but do those things violate the legal, human and civil rights of others? do they go against the law? do they empower bigotry and discrimination?
if so they are wrong too and should do it that way

4.) already given you what makes it valid or at least a general "guide" and it has nothing to do with me and you keep ignoring them.
laws, freedoms, rights, (human, legal and civil) the constitution etc. How do you even come to the conclusion it has to do with me? or its me deciding?

re: If there was a National Vote on Equal rights for gays, what would you do. [W:72]

X Factor said:

Really don't know if I give a **** about what you think of me any more.

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thats fine if you feel this way not sure why you feel so judge, i still have nothing but good things to think about you, do you some how think differently? Not askign if you care im asking how you come to the conclusion that i think bad of you?

just because i think you think its possible for a church to be forced is illogical doesnt mean anything but that :shrug:

You have a though that i think is illogical, so what, im sure you could say the same about me and even people you love/family? what does that mean?

why is this such an emotional thing for you? where do you think i am judging "you" at? and that its offensive?