View Poll Results: If there was a national vote on equal rights for gays what would you do?

Voters
175. You may not vote on this poll
  • Vote Yes - granting equal rights and the right to legal marriage

    133 76.00%
  • Vote No - denying equal rights and banning them from getting legal marriage

    24 13.71%
  • No vote - you simply dont vote at all

    18 10.29%
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Thread: If there was a National Vote on Equal rights for gays, what would you do [W:72,96,331

  1. #431
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    Re: If there was a National Vote on Equal rights for gays, what would you do [W:7...

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    nope it factually does not when it comes to public vote, already gave FACTUAL proof of that

    PLEASE PLEASE dont stop posting and dodging the questions this is awesome!
    FACTS destroy your post again.

    let me know when you can STAY ON TOPIC, answer the building up questions now instead of dodging them

    how many states banned it by public vote
    why is legislation an indicator of how voting would turn out?
    better question, why do you think legislation is a better indicator then public polling about the topic?
    why is legislation a good indicator since we have factual evidence that legislation has gone against what public vote as been?

    uhm also you said o to 32 in 12 years? please tell me what is in the 0 column?
    You should by all means then put it to a national vote.

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    Re: If there was a National Vote on Equal rights for gays, what would you do [W:7...

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    You should by all means then put it to a national vote.
    let me know when you can STAY ON TOPIC, answer the building up questions now instead of dodging them

    how many states banned it by public vote
    why is legislation an indicator of how voting would turn out?
    better question, why do you think legislation is a better indicator then public polling about the topic?
    why is legislation a good indicator since we have factual evidence that legislation has gone against what public vote as been?

    uhm also you said o to 32 in 12 years? please tell me what is in the 0 column?
    This space is currently owned by The Great Winchester, stay tuned for future messages!
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  3. #433
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    Re: If there was a National Vote on Equal rights for gays, what would you do. [W:72,

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    Did you even read the title or look at my link?

    Are you denying that 30 some states have banned SSM? come on.

    Not denying that at all, of course a decade ago 30+ states banned same sex civil marriage.

    What you seem to be running away from is your statement that 99% of the states with same sex civil marriage now are a result of judge actions.

    That was false. 33% were based on Judicial action, 66% per passed by the peoples legislatures and by the people themselves at the ballot box. But you don't address that and simply say "I was wrong", you deflect to first to Iowa ("Huh? what do you call legislative...As and example activist judges In Iowa approved Gay marriage...") when Iowa was not cited as a legislative passage. And now you are going on about the 30 states that banned it a decade ago.

    The undeniable fact is that 2/3rds of the States with same sex civil marriage did not get it because of a judges decision.


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  4. #434
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    Re: If there was a National Vote on Equal rights for gays, what would you do. [W:72]

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    I believe that is right for the most part but not in all cases.
    Well you are incorrect. The Constitution does not exist as a "list of rights" it exists as a restrictive covenant on government.

    As a matter of fact the Constitution itself says that rights held by the people need not be enumerated in the Constitution.

    And while the Constitution does not list marriage as a right, it does state that all citizens of a State are due Due Process and the Equal Protections of the laws.



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    Re: If there was a National Vote on Equal rights for gays, what would you do. [W:72]

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    If history is any indicator 32 states would vote against it. Thank goodness for judicial activism. You really are better off NOT putting it to a vote...thats a losing proposition.

    List of U.S. state constitutional amendments banning same-sex unions by type - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    History isn't necessarily a good indicator of voter actions today.

    I always disagreed with the decision to challenge Prop 8 in the courts. In California Prop 22 (2000, Statutory Law) passed at the ballot box with, IIRC, a 23% margin of victory. However just 8 years later Prop 8 (2008, Constitutional Amendment) barely squeaked by where only a 2.5% shift would have changed the outcome. If instead of a court challenged if proponents of SSCM had put it back on the ballot in 2012 it would have passed.

    Then there is the case of Maine, they voted at the polls against it in 2009 and in 2012 the voters reversed that decision and SSCM is now legal in Maine.

    True there are some people that would never change their vote, but we aren't talking about individuals we are talking about voter demographics which shift - things are not written in stone in the ballot box. Take a look at, IIRC, Alabama. Loving v. Virginia made anti-interracial marriage bans unconstitutional, however it doesn't change the text "on the books" or in various State Constitutions. In 2000 Alabama voted to amend it's Constitution to remove such a ban. The sad thing is that 40% of the vote was to keep the language.



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    Re: If there was a National Vote on Equal rights for gays, what would you do. [W:72]

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Polls...the fools refuge. Go ahead...put it up for a national vote.
    What I am doing is not playing your stupid game. I am posting the facts. From 1998 til current the states have gone from 0-32 laws and constitutional amendments banning gay marriage. In the light of that undeniable fact, your reply is "unuh...thats not what it REALLY means..." Yes...it IS. Without judicial intervention there would be..what...2 out of 50 states that allow gay marriage.

    But...but...but the POLLS say.....

    You realize there are no provisions under the Federal Constitution or Federal Law for any type of "putting laws up for a national vote", right?


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    Re: If there was a National Vote on Equal rights for gays, what would you do [W:7...

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    again...TLDR...learn to communicate. How long does it take you to write those silly posts anyway?

    32 bans. 0 to 32 in 12 years.

    But...the polls!!! Look at the polls!!!

    The great majority of those bans were not over 12 years, they occurred in the 2000-2006 time frame. One or two before that, one or two since. So the votes in a great majority of the states was a decade ago.

    Not saying that in those States SSCM would pass now, it probably wouldn't. But a decade ago the margins of victory were 25-76%. By 2008/2009 Prop 8 (CA) and Question 1 (ME) squeaked by where only a 2.5% shift would have changed the outcome. In the elections of 2012 4 states had SSCM on the ballot and it won in all 4.

    Time moves on and opinions change.


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    Re: If there was a National Vote on Equal rights for gays, what would you do [W:7...

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    You should by all means then put it to a national vote.

    Could you cite the Constitutional provisions or section of Federal law that allows any law to be voted on on a national level?

    Thank you in advance.


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  9. #439
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    Re: If there was a National Vote on Equal rights for gays, what would you do [W:7...

    Quote Originally Posted by WorldWatcher View Post
    Could you cite the Constitutional provisions or section of Federal law that allows any law to be voted on on a national level?

    Thank you in advance.


    >>>>
    Take it up with the OP...his idea.

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    Re: If there was a National Vote on Equal rights for gays, what would you do. [W:72,

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    what is this a list of?

    I have my own list

    Gay marriage is legal in the following countries nationally or in certain areas like us:

    Argentina
    Australia
    Belgium
    Brazil
    Canada
    Denmark
    France
    Iceland
    Mexico
    Netherlands:
    New Zealand:
    Norway
    Portugal
    South Africa
    Spain
    Sweden
    United Kingdom:
    United States:
    Uruguay

    14 states and DC have equal rights:

    California
    Connecticut
    Delaware
    Iowa
    Maine
    Maryland
    Massachusetts
    Minnesota
    New Hampshire
    New York
    New Jersey
    Rhode Island
    Vermont
    Washington
    19 more are in various stages of fighting or establishing a fight for equal rights

    New Mexico is granting equal rights for now and the SSC is going to decided on this month

    Court Case(s) in the works to establish equal rights:
    Arkansas
    Kentucky
    Michigan
    North Carolina
    Oklahoma
    Pennsylvania
    South Carolina
    Utah
    Virginia

    Court Case(s) and Legislation in the works, which ever wins first:
    Arizona
    Hawaii
    Illinois
    Nevada
    Ohio


    Legislation in the works:
    Colorado
    Florida
    Oregon
    just an update because in this short time things have already changed

    16 states and DC have equal rights:

    California - June 28, 2013
    Connecticut - November 12, 2008
    Delaware - July 1, 2013
    Hawaii - December 2, 2013 effective
    Illinois - June 1, 2014 effective
    Iowa - April 27, 2009
    Maine - December 29, 2012
    Maryland - January 1, 2013
    Massachusetts - May 17, 2004
    Minnesota - August 1, 2013
    New Hampshire - January 1, 2010
    New Jersey - October 21, 2013
    New York - July 24, 2011
    Rhode Island - August 1, 2013
    Vermont - September 1, 2009
    Washington - December 6, 2012

    16 more are in various stages of fighting or establishing a fight for equal rights


    New Mexico is granting equal rights for now and the SSC is going to decided on this soon

    Court Case(s) in the works to establish equal rights:
    Arkansas
    Kentucky
    Michigan (Feb Trial)
    North Carolina
    Oklahoma
    Pennsylvania (June Trial)
    South Carolina
    Utah


    Court Case(s) and Legislation in the works, which ever wins first:
    Arizona
    Nevada
    Ohio (December 2013 trial)


    Legislation in the works:
    Colorado
    Florida
    Oregon

    thats 32 states that could have equal rights by 2015 and some much sooner!
    This space is currently owned by The Great Winchester, stay tuned for future messages!
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