View Poll Results: What does disability mean and who should get it?

Voters
36. You may not vote on this poll
  • It means unmanagable pain and those people should get it

    9 25.00%
  • It means one might get a chance to retire early and play

    2 5.56%
  • It is another way to fleece taxpayers and no one should get it

    2 5.56%
  • who cares, it is unmanagable

    0 0%
  • who cares, it is insignificant expenditure for the US

    1 2.78%
  • It should be completely overhauled, re-written, and inspected for cheaters

    26 72.22%
Multiple Choice Poll.
Page 58 of 58 FirstFirst ... 848565758
Results 571 to 580 of 580

Thread: What does disability mean to you and who qualifies?

  1. #571
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Last Seen
    07-19-17 @ 03:51 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    60,458

    Re: What does disability mean to you and who qualifies?

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    I don't understand why people think there are two separate systems operating and only the extremes are possible? This country is mostly capitalism with a form of socialism.
    Because the one naturally destorys the other and the principles it sets forth. That however has nothing to do with my argument. The argument was that the individuals in question where socialists that had the idea to control private property and the means of production instead of making their move transparent and remove it for all to see.

    I don't think trying to create a system that benefits the most people is an attempt to relieve all suffering.
    Giving a majority an opportunity to earn a share of the pie benefits society as a whole, instead of allowing a small percentage at the top to use their position and leverage to rig the game. There's a point were success becomes more about ego and power at others expense than achieving anything positive.
    Giving people services at the expense of fellow citizens is not providing them an opportunity to do anything nor does it benefit society. It simply allows the government to violate its mission and violate the rights of people. It is not the mission of government to provide people what they need to survive at other peoples expense, nor is it in line with capitalist principles or the principles of a free society.

    I won't disagree that as a society we've raised a couple generations of lazy, self entitled brats with little work ethic. But on the other hand we've also created a huge swath of unemployment and disparaging income, which far outweighs any abuse of the social system.
    I don't really care about any of this.

  2. #572
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Last Seen
    07-19-17 @ 03:51 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    60,458

    Re: What does disability mean to you and who qualifies?

    "Can the law, whose necessary sanction is force, be reasonably employed upon anything beyond securing to every one his right? I defy anyone to remove it from this circle without perverting it, and consequently turning force against right. And as this is the most fatal, the most illogical social perversion that can possibly be imagined, it must be admitted that the true solution, so much sought after, of the social problem, is contained in these simple words—LAW IS ORGANIZED JUSTICE.-Frederic Bastiat

    This idea you can take from someone and give to others will forever be theft and therefore a violation of ones property and as it is the duty of the state to protect the property of the citizens it can therefore not in turn take part in acts of theft without violating it's duties and it's mission. Socialism is incapable with a government upholding it's mission and carrying out justice. It really doesn't matter if you are going to simply take part in it half way or all the way as no matter the amount the government is taking part in injustice.
    Last edited by Henrin; 10-23-13 at 02:12 PM.

  3. #573
    Sage
    JC Callender's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Metro Detroit
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 07:40 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    5,632

    Re: What does disability mean to you and who qualifies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gina View Post
    If you think that charity can replace the disability system, you do not have any idea what you are talking about. It has been explained, in great detail, what is required to service such a diverse population. You have yet to address that, to propose any kind of program in any capacity other than to repeat charity, private sector, efficiency. Faith does not make it so. The real world depends on planning, staffing and implementation.

    If the private sector saw a dime's worth of value in the "disability market", they would be mining it. Komen does one thing, raise money for breast cancer. You would have to have dozens of charities the size of Komen to cover the broad spectrum that is the current disability program. Which you have also not acknowledged.

    I understand not sharing with the forum and I'm sorry it hasn't been easy. I just doubt you comprehend what the rest of those with disability face.
    And that's what the private sector does much more efficiently than the government, do you doubt that? Here's what would more than likely happen if there were no more welfare: Local churches and charities would take over and pick up any slack that the families and friends of the disabled couldn't handle. The poorer communities would receive funding from the huge national charities. As far as corruption goes, the whistle blowing media is much more wide spread and effective than it was before welfare, so they will expose much of it. And the citizens will have a much better shot at fixing the corruption as you can easily shut off the funding to a corrupt organization or fire corrupt workers where you can't with the government, or at least it's not nearly as easily. A disabled person would visit an office designed to help the poor and disabled and would receive an extensive interview and check up by a doctor and that would determine if they would receive any help and how much.

  4. #574
    Global Moderator
    Moderator

    Gina's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:36 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    31,960

    Re: What does disability mean to you and who qualifies?

    Quote Originally Posted by JC Callender View Post
    And that's what the private sector does much more efficiently than the government, do you doubt that? Here's what would more than likely happen if there were no more welfare: Local churches and charities would take over and pick up any slack that the families and friends of the disabled couldn't handle. The poorer communities would receive funding from the huge national charities. As far as corruption goes, the whistle blowing media is much more wide spread and effective than it was before welfare, so they will expose much of it. And the citizens will have a much better shot at fixing the corruption as you can easily shut off the funding to a corrupt organization or fire corrupt workers where you can't with the government, or at least it's not nearly as easily. A disabled person would visit an office designed to help the poor and disabled and would receive an extensive interview and check up by a doctor and that would determine if they would receive any help and how much.
    1. Fraud is makes up 1% of disability system.
    2. Defrauding employees in the government, are not that common. Fraudulent spending and embezzlement are constant problems with charities.
    3. What office would they go to? Who staffs it? Pays employees? Who determines what needs the disabled person has? What if it's not medical assistance but funds to pay living expenses?
    I don't attack my constituents. Bob is my constituent now.
    This is the important stuff. We canít get lost in discrimination. We canít get lost in B.S. We canít get lost tearing each other down. I want to make a point here that no matter what you look like, where you come from, how you worship, who you love, how you identify, and yeah, how you run, that if you have good public policy ideas, if you are well qualified for office, bring those ideas to the table, because this is your America, too. This is our commonwealth of Virginia, too.
    Danica Roem - The nation's first openly transgender person elected to serve in a U.S. state legislature.

  5. #575
    Sage
    JC Callender's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Metro Detroit
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 07:40 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    5,632

    Re: What does disability mean to you and who qualifies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gina View Post
    1. Fraud is makes up 1% of disability system.
    2. Defrauding employees in the government, are not that common. Fraudulent spending and embezzlement are constant problems with charities.
    3. What office would they go to? Who staffs it? Pays employees? Who determines what needs the disabled person has? What if it's not medical assistance but funds to pay living expenses?
    Gleaners seem pretty successful, maybe we could use them as a model. You would have an administrative staff to handle these things, just like any charity. And if the disabled need funds, they may get them, who's to say they wouldn't?

    Also, please give this video a try if you have time: Disability, USA - 60 Minutes - CBS News

  6. #576
    Global Moderator
    Moderator

    Gina's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:36 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    31,960

    Re: What does disability mean to you and who qualifies?

    Quote Originally Posted by JC Callender View Post
    Gleaners seem pretty successful, maybe we could use them as a model. You would have an administrative staff to handle these things, just like any charity. And if the disabled need funds, they may get them, who's to say they wouldn't?

    Also, please give this video a try if you have time: Disability, USA - 60 Minutes - CBS News
    Gleaners are not medical/psychological/disability experts. They are volunteers collecting food. Again, who determines what needs the person with disabilities has? What if it's not medical but living expenses, as they now receive? Who determines they are eligible and how?

    The video is not all it's cracked up to be: Outrage Grows Over

    There were any number of experts who could have been interviewed on this topic to counterbalance the views of a far-right senator who is best known as a denier of global warming (Tom Coburn). But Sixty Minutes apparently could not be bothered to present a more balanced picture of the disability program.

    The basic fact, which may be painful for CBS News and Sixty Minutes, is that it is not easy to get on Social Security disability. Close to three quarters of applicants are turned down initially and even after appeal, 60 percent of applicants are denied benefits.
    I don't attack my constituents. Bob is my constituent now.
    This is the important stuff. We canít get lost in discrimination. We canít get lost in B.S. We canít get lost tearing each other down. I want to make a point here that no matter what you look like, where you come from, how you worship, who you love, how you identify, and yeah, how you run, that if you have good public policy ideas, if you are well qualified for office, bring those ideas to the table, because this is your America, too. This is our commonwealth of Virginia, too.
    Danica Roem - The nation's first openly transgender person elected to serve in a U.S. state legislature.

  7. #577
    Sage
    JC Callender's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Metro Detroit
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 07:40 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    5,632

    Re: What does disability mean to you and who qualifies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gina View Post
    Gleaners are not medical/psychological/disability experts. They are volunteers collecting food. Again, who determines what needs the person with disabilities has? What if it's not medical but living expenses, as they now receive? Who determines they are eligible and how?

    The video is not all it's cracked up to be: Outrage Grows Over
    What, do you want me to submit a policy to you? Each location will probably go off of the same basic template, but then again, maybe they won't. If a disabled person feels they've been mistreated at one office, they can try out another.

    They're not going to get the exact same thing as the government provides. Friends and families will be doing more than they do now, which will actually be better for the disabled imo. Some may receive cash, but not nearly like the government is doling out. Help would probably come more in the form of helping to find roomates for cheaper rent, medical supplies like wheelchairs, braces, etc..., transportation, etc...

    And I find it hard to believe that 60 Minutes is running a hit piece on an entitlement.

  8. #578
    Global Moderator
    Moderator

    Gina's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:36 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    31,960

    Re: What does disability mean to you and who qualifies?

    Quote Originally Posted by JC Callender View Post
    What, do you want me to submit a policy to you? Each location will probably go off of the same basic template, but then again, maybe they won't. If a disabled person feels they've been mistreated at one office, they can try out another.

    They're not going to get the exact same thing as the government provides. Friends and families will be doing more than they do now, which will actually be better for the disabled imo. Some may receive cash, but not nearly like the government is doling out. Help would probably come more in the form of helping to find roomates for cheaper rent, medical supplies like wheelchairs, braces, etc..., transportation, etc...

    And I find it hard to believe that 60 Minutes is running a hit piece on an entitlement.
    No, I want you to describe the structure that would replace disability. If you are familiar at all with handling people with disability, you could describe the structure of the charity.

    Answer these questions:

    Who determines what needs the person with disabilities has? What if it's not medical but living expenses, as they now receive? Who determines they are eligible and how?

    Why do you find that hard to believe?
    I don't attack my constituents. Bob is my constituent now.
    This is the important stuff. We canít get lost in discrimination. We canít get lost in B.S. We canít get lost tearing each other down. I want to make a point here that no matter what you look like, where you come from, how you worship, who you love, how you identify, and yeah, how you run, that if you have good public policy ideas, if you are well qualified for office, bring those ideas to the table, because this is your America, too. This is our commonwealth of Virginia, too.
    Danica Roem - The nation's first openly transgender person elected to serve in a U.S. state legislature.

  9. #579
    Angry Former GOP Voter
    Fiddytree's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Last Seen
    Today @ 03:49 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    25,703

    Re: What does disability mean to you and who qualifies?

    Quote Originally Posted by JC Callender View Post
    If a disabled person feels they've been mistreated at one office, they can try out another.

    So, in other words, those private institutions were just open arms with the disabled wanting to get an education? It was tough enough getting them entry in the public sector in the 1960s, let alone them gaining services in the private sector without federal funds right now.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

  10. #580
    Sage
    JC Callender's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Metro Detroit
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 07:40 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    5,632

    Re: What does disability mean to you and who qualifies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gina View Post
    No, I want you to describe the structure that would replace disability. If you are familiar at all with handling people with disability, you could describe the structure of the charity.

    Answer these questions:

    Who determines what needs the person with disabilities has? What if it's not medical but living expenses, as they now receive? Who determines they are eligible and how?

    Why do you find that hard to believe?
    I just explained to you the structure. Local charities will serve people and national charities will help fund the poorer communities. It's not going to be exactly like the government, everyone won't get a $1200 check, it would be different, more personal and hands on. As far as who'll determine their needs, that will depend on the policy that community adopts, which probably would follow some sort of basic template like everyone else uses.

    If you're afraid that a disabled person might slip through the cracks and not get help, look at Detroit.....who's received more entitlement money than them. How can my plan turn out worse than Detroit?

Page 58 of 58 FirstFirst ... 848565758

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •