View Poll Results: What does disability mean and who should get it?

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  • It means unmanagable pain and those people should get it

    9 25.00%
  • It means one might get a chance to retire early and play

    2 5.56%
  • It is another way to fleece taxpayers and no one should get it

    2 5.56%
  • who cares, it is unmanagable

    0 0%
  • who cares, it is insignificant expenditure for the US

    1 2.78%
  • It should be completely overhauled, re-written, and inspected for cheaters

    26 72.22%
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Thread: What does disability mean to you and who qualifies?

  1. #521
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    Re: What does disability mean to you and who qualifies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post

    Take some guy who barely graduated high school and spends the next 20 years working the loading dock, but he hurts his back. He's no longer able to lift anything heavy most days; driving for more than an hour causes severe pain; etc. Well, he's effectively disabled for any job he could actually GET, given his education and experience. I suppose we could try to retrain him as a computer programmer but honestly if he barely passed HS and spent 20 yrs on the dock how well is that likely to go? (not too very)
    Probably better (and cheaper) then leaving him to live off the state for the rest of his life.

    That said there is lots of factory work you can do sitting down (some people at the chocolate factory i work at literally spend all day placing molds on a conveyor belt) , but the problem is that the management may prefer to rotate people, or to have the option of moving someone somewhere else. This is going to be a big problem in a job market that allows employers to be picky in who they hire. Which is why IMHO its pointless to discuss disability outside of the context of the economy as a whole and how we have been running it for the past two decades.

    I even knew of a guy with schizophrenia who was too paranoid to go outside, but eventually found a job where he could go to a workshop by himself in the small hours of the morning, paint furniture and then go home, but ultimately cases like this are rare as there is too much focus on getting the employee to adapt for the employer and not the other way around.

  2. #522
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    Re: What does disability mean to you and who qualifies?

    Quote Originally Posted by JC Callender View Post
    The government is consistently bad....

    We have a food bank in Detroit called Gleaners, and the incredible amount of food they receive always amazes me. It seems like every food drive from schools to churches to other organizations and charities goes down to Gleaners....
    It is Interesting ...to note that in 2012 Gleaners of southeast Michigan received almost $1 million
    ( $955,000 plus some odd dollars )
    In a grant from the Federal government.
    When it comes to matters of reproduce health, Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual or her faith.

  3. #523
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    Re: What does disability mean to you and who qualifies?

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post
    It is Interesting ...to note that in 2012 Gleaners of southeast Michigan received almost $1 million
    ( $955,000 plus some odd dollars )
    In a grant from the Federal government.
    Who didn't the Federal government give money to?

  4. #524
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    Re: What does disability mean to you and who qualifies?

    Quote Originally Posted by JC Callender View Post
    Who didn't the Federal government give money to?
    I gave them a bunch, but so far they haven't reciprocated...they just don't play fair!

  5. #525
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    Re: What does disability mean to you and who qualifies?

    Quote Originally Posted by polgara View Post
    I gave them a bunch, but so far they haven't reciprocated...they just don't play fair!
    No, they sure don't Pg

  6. #526
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    Re: What does disability mean to you and who qualifies?

    Quote Originally Posted by JC Callender View Post
    Who didn't the Federal government give money to?
    Well, my husband is one. He is self employed.

    He does however enjoy the use of the roads , the post office service , etc. Our children went to public schools but we also supported all of those Services with the taxes we pay.
    Last edited by minnie616; 10-20-13 at 05:33 PM.
    When it comes to matters of reproduce health, Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual or her faith.

  7. #527
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    Re: What does disability mean to you and who qualifies?

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post
    Well, my husband is one. He is self employed and because of type of business he is in he does not pay into Social security so he will never receive SS or medicare benefits.

    He does however enjoy the use of the roads , the post office service , etc. Our children went to public schools but we also supported all of those Services with the taxes we pay.
    Just a note. Self employed people pay both ends of FICA taxes

  8. #528
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    Re: What does disability mean to you and who qualifies?

    Quote Originally Posted by JC Callender View Post
    You can consider my assessment of the government a platitude, but look at the Congressional approval ratings. Look at the constant reports of outrageous waste and corruption. I've never met a person who thought the government ran efficiently. And you're trying to use the current state of charities as what it would look like if there were no government assistance, but the charities would be much more widespread. Gleaners would expand to fill the void, and if they're doing such a great job, I would much rather give my money to them than the government anyway. And as far as the massive needs out there now, do you have a few examples?

    I just can't believe that if the disabled weren't getting government checks anymore that they wouldn't be helped in one way or another. Why wouldn't an organization come about to give them aid, along with their family and friends? Why wouldn't you lead the charge to do something like that? Why could the Komen Foundation do it and you couldn't? I've said that if we didn't like a charity, then we wouldn't donate to it anymore, but that doesn't mean that people wouldn't donate to that cause, someone would come up with a better charity. That's how the free market works and why it would be more successful than the government who has no competition and very little concern as to whether you like them or not.
    More platitudes. Congressional approval ratings are at historic lows over the shutdown. I've conceded that there is waste fraud and abuse, but it is 1% of the system and it has to do with people trying to defraud the government, not government workers stealing funds. Charities are at constant risk of theft. United Way has had numerous scandals over misuse of funds that went to pay personal expenses for staff or excessive spending on things like flowers and gifts for donors. Embezzlement is common in charities.

    Here's the Charity Watch Hall of Shame: CharityWatch Hall of Shame - charitywatch.org

    Your examples:

    Food insecurity:

    How Many People Lived in Food-Insecure Households?

    In 2012:

    49.0 million people lived in food-insecure households.
    12.4 million adults lived in households with very low food security.
    8.3 million children lived in food-insecure households in which children, along with adults, were food insecure.
    977,000 children (1.3 percent of the Nation's children) lived in households in which one or more child experienced very low food security.

    USDA ERS - Food Security in the U.S.: Key Statistics & Graphics

    Although the number of people in poverty went up from 46.2 million in 2011, the national poverty rate was unchanged at 15 percent, the annual report said. The poverty threshold in 2012 was an income of $23,492 for a family of four.

    U.S. poverty rises despite economic recovery | Reuters


    I don't know why you would think people would charge in to fill the needs of the disabled. Not all of those with disabilities can live on their own as it is. Their checks help assist the family or friends they live with now. Why would the free market take an interest in charitably taking care of the needs of the disabled? The free market operates on profit. There is no profit in charity.

    This is interesting about Komen:
    Even $63 million is too little to support most of the worthy grant requests Komen receives: of the initial applications it receives, the group funds between 10 percent and 15 percent.

    Of the full proposals - those deemed good enough that scientists were invited to submit an extensive description of their proposed research - it funds less than 20 percent, said a leading cancer researcher with close ties to Komen.
    One last thought. Not every community will have the resources to charitably care for the disabled. Such is the case where I live, where businesses and the community are hit up for giving by dozens and dozens of worthy causes. There is already saturation for charitable giving and there isn't enough money to go around already. My leading a charge would be but one more hand out. Tax relief at the rate of 12% of taxes paid, would hardly make a dent, even if people were of the mind to donate every penny to the disabled. I'm curious, why wouldn't you lead the charge? You surely have ideas how to consistently raise funds to deliver services and money to the disabled, more efficiently than the government.
    I don't attack my constituents. Bob is my constituent now.
    This is the important stuff. We canít get lost in discrimination. We canít get lost in B.S. We canít get lost tearing each other down. I want to make a point here that no matter what you look like, where you come from, how you worship, who you love, how you identify, and yeah, how you run, that if you have good public policy ideas, if you are well qualified for office, bring those ideas to the table, because this is your America, too. This is our commonwealth of Virginia, too.
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  9. #529
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    Re: What does disability mean to you and who qualifies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gina View Post
    More platitudes. Congressional approval ratings are at historic lows over the shutdown. I've conceded that there is waste fraud and abuse, but it is 1% of the system and it has to do with people trying to defraud the government, not government workers stealing funds. Charities are at constant risk of theft. United Way has had numerous scandals over misuse of funds that went to pay personal expenses for staff or excessive spending on things like flowers and gifts for donors. Embezzlement is common in charities.

    Here's the Charity Watch Hall of Shame: CharityWatch Hall of Shame - charitywatch.org

    Your examples:

    Food insecurity:

    How Many People Lived in Food-Insecure Households?

    In 2012:

    49.0 million people lived in food-insecure households.
    12.4 million adults lived in households with very low food security.
    8.3 million children lived in food-insecure households in which children, along with adults, were food insecure.
    977,000 children (1.3 percent of the Nation's children) lived in households in which one or more child experienced very low food security.

    USDA ERS - Food Security in the U.S.: Key Statistics & Graphics

    Although the number of people in poverty went up from 46.2 million in 2011, the national poverty rate was unchanged at 15 percent, the annual report said. The poverty threshold in 2012 was an income of $23,492 for a family of four.

    U.S. poverty rises despite economic recovery | Reuters


    I don't know why you would think people would charge in to fill the needs of the disabled. Not all of those with disabilities can live on their own as it is. Their checks help assist the family or friends they live with now. Why would the free market take an interest in charitably taking care of the needs of the disabled? The free market operates on profit. There is no profit in charity.

    This is interesting about Komen:


    One last thought. Not every community will have the resources to charitably care for the disabled. Such is the case where I live, where businesses and the community are hit up for giving by dozens and dozens of worthy causes. There is already saturation for charitable giving and there isn't enough money to go around already. My leading a charge would be but one more hand out. Tax relief at the rate of 12% of taxes paid, would hardly make a dent, even if people were of the mind to donate every penny to the disabled. I'm curious, why wouldn't you lead the charge? You surely have ideas how to consistently raise funds to deliver services and money to the disabled, more efficiently than the government.
    Congressional approval ratings have been very low for a long time: RealClearPolitics - Election Other - Congressional Job Approval

    Charities do have scandals, as I've said before, but the difference between them and the government is that you can chose to give to another charity, but you have no choice with the government.

    As far as your poverty stats, doesn't that prove that the War on Poverty has been a failure? It seems like you're making my point for me. And I live near Detroit, one of the model cities for the War on Poverty. I'm sure you've heard of their problems.

    I think people would help because I see how we come together for things like natural disasters, the events after 9/11, etc... . I think we have a very compassionate nation. I know you're downplaying the effect that Komen has, but a lot of people don't donate to charities because they believe the government is already taking care of it, I mean, who doesn't the Federal government give money too?

    Once again, you're 12% and my 12% may not amount to much, but a wealthy persons 12% sure does. And why couldn't you lead the charge to a great charity if Komen could? As for me, maybe I would. I certainly would if no one else did.

  10. #530
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    Re: What does disability mean to you and who qualifies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Rocketman, if you are going to presume people are frauds, and some undoubtedly are, you can't really do it off the basis that you saw some guy and he didn't "look" disabled. It doesn't (nor should it) work that way.

    I would address your thread, but you have no options that are worth a dang.
    FT, at the essential core of the matter, disability does merely come down to an eyeball test. It just depends on who is doing it.

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