View Poll Results: What does disability mean and who should get it?

Voters
36. You may not vote on this poll
  • It means unmanagable pain and those people should get it

    9 25.00%
  • It means one might get a chance to retire early and play

    2 5.56%
  • It is another way to fleece taxpayers and no one should get it

    2 5.56%
  • who cares, it is unmanagable

    0 0%
  • who cares, it is insignificant expenditure for the US

    1 2.78%
  • It should be completely overhauled, re-written, and inspected for cheaters

    26 72.22%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: What does disability mean to you and who qualifies?

  1. #511
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    Re: What does disability mean to you and who qualifies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gina View Post
    That the government is consistently bad, is your platitude. Those who receive disability might have complaints but they are consistently getting aid because the government will be around unlike the charity that does a bad job or cannot sustain its funding. Those, by your own words, can and do dissolve. Why do I believe I have a desire the wealthy don't? Because there aren't widespread charitable programs to fill the needs the government doesn't meet now. There are multi-millionaires and billionaires, with more than enough to give millions now, without taxes being returned, yet there are massive needs out there.

    There are Gleaners in my area too. They do a fantastic job of feeding people. At this level. Throw thousands off disability, and it would stress their ability to provide.

    You are clearly not getting what disability provides for people. It keeps them living independently or in group homes. They can work part time, if capable, and still be independent. Take that away. Now what? Describe what you see happening.

    To your last paragraph, there you have a glaring reason to not depend on charity, as I stated in my first paragraph, they go away. People depending on bad charities would be left in a lurch and possibly dire circumstances. There are loads of them now which are scams. Increasing charitable donations would only exacerbate that.
    You can consider my assessment of the government a platitude, but look at the Congressional approval ratings. Look at the constant reports of outrageous waste and corruption. I've never met a person who thought the government ran efficiently. And you're trying to use the current state of charities as what it would look like if there were no government assistance, but the charities would be much more widespread. Gleaners would expand to fill the void, and if they're doing such a great job, I would much rather give my money to them than the government anyway. And as far as the massive needs out there now, do you have a few examples?

    I just can't believe that if the disabled weren't getting government checks anymore that they wouldn't be helped in one way or another. Why wouldn't an organization come about to give them aid, along with their family and friends? Why wouldn't you lead the charge to do something like that? Why could the Komen Foundation do it and you couldn't? I've said that if we didn't like a charity, then we wouldn't donate to it anymore, but that doesn't mean that people wouldn't donate to that cause, someone would come up with a better charity. That's how the free market works and why it would be more successful than the government who has no competition and very little concern as to whether you like them or not.

  2. #512
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    Re: What does disability mean to you and who qualifies?

    Quote Originally Posted by JC Callender View Post
    You can consider my assessment of the government a platitude, but look at the Congressional approval ratings. Look at the constant reports of outrageous waste and corruption. I've never met a person who thought the government ran efficiently.
    Congressional approval ratings are irrelevant here, but one important caveat is the difference between whole house approval rating and approval rating per representative of their district and state.

    The first thing that I had to do was moderate public complaints against waste, fraud, and abuse by looking at what actually was. On one hand, there are indeed cases of waste, fraud, and abuse. However, many times public scandals surrounding government bureaucracy run on overly simplistic notions of "common sense", avoiding the more troublesome question as to whether or not the supposed "waste" actually served its purpose. Complaints about $10,000 coffee machines neglected to understand that they ran more efficiently and lasted longer for the purposes of the military instead of the constant breaking down of equipment by more consumer-grade products. Complaints about coffee cups engineered to break in 5 specific pieces were created that way so there was far less danger involved in military-owned aircraft. Then, on top of that, the more famous complaints about waste and abuse end up being on the rare spectrum, despite getting the most public play.

    In another way, government bureaucracy can be both efficient and effective just as it can be inefficient or at times ineffective. Part of that is by design. Accountability measures demanded by the public (often-times that demand comes from people with your political inclinations) slow matters down due to increased oversight. In many other ways, however, effectiveness and efficiency have been remarkable over the past 20 years. More and more departments have been attempting to get the right balance between the two, and they are frequently responding to those needs through internal study.

    The public is largely unaware of these matters though. They tend to keep to the same bland complaints and get bored whenever someone wants to actually discuss what happens and why it happens.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

  3. #513
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    Re: What does disability mean to you and who qualifies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    The middle to upper class rich would disproportionately help the disabled in comparison with the lower classes, but that is due to leisure and potential social mission work. If there is no wide-scale social impulse as there was in the late 19th and early 20th century, you get less middle class and upper class folks helping those causes. The private social reform impulse in America was largely dormant until the late 19th and early 20th centuries, and eventually subsided. That being said, it did not get the job done. That's why the middle and upper classes engaged in private associations bothered advocating for such governmental interventions in the first place. The problems were considered too big to conquer through private association alone.

    There are limits to government action, and traditional methods of ameliorating social distress need to be promoted (hence why I thought the Bush and Obama administrations correctly perceived the nature of faith-based initiatives) but it is immensely foolish to suggest that an entirely private venture would do more than make matters worse.



    The rate of "incredible" is rather low if you are wanting to compare it to a district and statewide program, let alone national.



    You're seriously suggesting consumer choice has meaning here?
    Yeah, look at the ridiculous failure the Komen Foundation has made of themselves! Forget your town turning completely pink when they role in and practically every organization on earth participating.

  4. #514
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    Re: What does disability mean to you and who qualifies?

    Quote Originally Posted by JC Callender View Post
    Yeah, look at the ridiculous failure the Komen Foundation has made of themselves! Forget your town turning completely pink when they role in and practically every organization on earth participating.
    So are you going to bother dealing with the weaknesses of private associations when they were at their zenith in America, or would you prefer to give me one foundation during a time in which they are dramatically less prominent?
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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    Re: What does disability mean to you and who qualifies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Congressional approval ratings are irrelevant here, but one important caveat is the difference between whole house approval rating and approval rating per representative of their district and state.

    The first thing that I had to do was moderate public complaints against waste, fraud, and abuse by looking at what actually was. On one hand, there are indeed cases of waste, fraud, and abuse. However, many times public scandals surrounding government bureaucracy run on overly simplistic notions of "common sense", avoiding the more troublesome question as to whether or not the supposed "waste" actually served its purpose. Complaints about $10,000 coffee machines neglected to understand that they ran more efficiently and lasted longer for the purposes of the military instead of the constant breaking down of equipment by more consumer-grade products. Complaints about coffee cups engineered to break in 5 specific pieces were created that way so there was far less danger involved in military-owned aircraft. Then, on top of that, the more famous complaints about waste and abuse end up being on the rare spectrum, despite getting the most public play.

    In another way, government bureaucracy can be both efficient and effective just as it can be inefficient or at times ineffective. Part of that is by design. Accountability measures demanded by the public (often-times that demand comes from people with your political inclinations) slow matters down due to increased oversight. In many other ways, however, effectiveness and efficiency have been remarkable over the past 20 years. More and more departments have been attempting to get the right balance between the two, and they are frequently responding to those needs through internal study.

    The public is largely unaware of these matters though. They tend to keep to the same bland complaints and get bored whenever someone wants to actually discuss what happens and why it happens.
    Government Spending Waste: 25 Wasteful Items - Business Insider

    I could go on and on and on....

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    Re: What does disability mean to you and who qualifies?

    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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    Re: What does disability mean to you and who qualifies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    So are you going to bother dealing with the weaknesses of private associations when they were at their zenith in America, or would you prefer to give me one foundation during a time in which they are dramatically less prominent?
    No, I'm going to ask you to explain why the Komen Foundation is so successful? That's what matters today anyway. As far as the 19th and early 20th century, going back to my initial argument, I'd say Annie Sullivan took pretty great care of Helen Keller. Now tell me why that happened as well?

  8. #518
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    Re: What does disability mean to you and who qualifies?

    Your reply is a reference to a book on Amazon? And it looks like your book is meant to consider reasons the government could be more efficient. I don't get your point.

  9. #519
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    Re: What does disability mean to you and who qualifies?

    Quote Originally Posted by JC Callender View Post
    No, I'm going to ask you to explain why the Komen Foundation is so successful? That's what matters today anyway. As far as the 19th and early 20th century, going back to my initial argument, I'd say Annie Sullivan took pretty great care of Helen Keller. Now tell me why that happened as well?
    If you want to discuss the undermining of the entire welfare state, you have to account for why it started and gained legitimacy in the first place. We don't need to play anecdotal games worthy of intellectual simpletons like Bill O' Reilly. What you know of one person cannot substitute an institutional reality that has been well-documented in history. Besides, we went over that ground before...or at least I did. All you could do was hopelessly wander in the woods and show me a stick you found in an entire forest.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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    Re: What does disability mean to you and who qualifies?

    Quote Originally Posted by JC Callender View Post
    Your reply is a reference to a book on Amazon? And it looks like your book is meant to consider reasons the government could be more efficient. I don't get your point.
    If you would read it, you would understand that in many ways it undermines your essential viewpoint of government bureaucracy.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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