View Poll Results: What does disability mean and who should get it?

Voters
36. You may not vote on this poll
  • It means unmanagable pain and those people should get it

    9 25.00%
  • It means one might get a chance to retire early and play

    2 5.56%
  • It is another way to fleece taxpayers and no one should get it

    2 5.56%
  • who cares, it is unmanagable

    0 0%
  • who cares, it is insignificant expenditure for the US

    1 2.78%
  • It should be completely overhauled, re-written, and inspected for cheaters

    26 72.22%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: What does disability mean to you and who qualifies?

  1. #421
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    Re: What does disability mean to you and who qualifies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Risky Thicket View Post
    Actually not long ago the lives of people with disabilities were often miserable. It is because of laws such as the ADA that millions of Americans can work and pay taxes. As for churches and families providing attendant care today compared to 40 or 50 years ago, it isn't the same thing. Decades ago assistive technology was nothing compared to what it is today. The same for durable medical equipment.

    Most everyone on DP will be directly affected by disability before they die. You will acquire a disability or someone you love will. Often it will be life changing. If not for US disability laws many people affected would soon become penniless and often isolated and alone. I am often amazed that people would turn a cold eye to that reality when they see it in others.

    You will be affected by a disability, chances are good that you will have one yourself. I hope you get one you like.
    How do you know their lives were miserable and that the government made their lives better? Do you think Helen Keller was glad that Annie Sullivan came into her life? Was Sullivan sent by the government?

    You're assuming that the great leaps in technology that have led us all to live more comfortable, safer lives are all due to the government. I think that the amazing ingenuity of America before there were even welfare and disability payments would've continued and we would've found ways to take care of each other without the government.
    Last edited by JC Callender; 10-18-13 at 08:39 PM.

  2. #422
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    Re: What does disability mean to you and who qualifies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gina View Post
    I've read a biography of Annie Sullivan and though she turned out to be exceptional at communicating with Helen Keller, I could never sanction such an upbringing for any other child.


    From Annie herself. And it was Annie, not the disgusting conditions she endured that made her life what it became. Surely you do not advocate a return of such as she reported?
    I think it's the hardships that made Annie who she was. I believe hardships give us insight and empathy, and I think that's what drove Sullivan to her success with Keller.

    Another example is Abe Lincoln, who grew up in poverty with no formal education. He had his own serious mental issues. In the book "Lincoln's Meloncholy" the author describes how the many failures in his life as well as his depression let to his greatness. Two wonderful people in our history who did amazing things for humanity, and both of them probably wouldn't be who they are today because they wouldn't have faced the same hardships.

  3. #423
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    Re: What does disability mean to you and who qualifies?

    Quote Originally Posted by JC Callender View Post
    I think it's the hardships that made Annie who she was. I believe hardships give us insight and empathy, and I think that's what drove Sullivan to her success with Keller.

    Another example is Abe Lincoln, who grew up in poverty with no formal education. He had his own serious mental issues. In the book "Lincoln's Meloncholy" the author describes how the many failures in his life as well as his depression let to his greatness. Two wonderful people in our history who did amazing things for humanity, and both of them probably wouldn't be who they are today because they wouldn't have faced the same hardships.
    So you are advocating for this:
    I doubt if life, or eternity for that matter, is long enough to erase the errors and ugly blots scored upon my brain by those dismal years.
    That we purposely create that kind of environment and place innocent children in the midst of such depravity so as to create more Annies and Abes? What of those countless thousands who didn't overcome the abuse but succumbed to it, like her brother who died there? I read Annie's story as a 10-year-old. Absolutely terrifying. I could never condone placing children in such conditions.
    I don't attack my constituents. Bob is my constituent now.
    This is the important stuff. We canít get lost in discrimination. We canít get lost in B.S. We canít get lost tearing each other down. I want to make a point here that no matter what you look like, where you come from, how you worship, who you love, how you identify, and yeah, how you run, that if you have good public policy ideas, if you are well qualified for office, bring those ideas to the table, because this is your America, too. This is our commonwealth of Virginia, too.
    Danica Roem - The nation's first openly transgender person elected to serve in a U.S. state legislature.

  4. #424
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    Re: What does disability mean to you and who qualifies?

    Quote Originally Posted by JC Callender View Post
    How can they possibly tell how things would've turned out without massive welfare? America became an incredible success story....the envy of the world, before we even had big government. Our potential was amazing, how does anyone know that we couldn't have handled disabilities better without big government?
    JC, when you are able to look at how life for the disabled was prior to government programs and interventions, you are able to make that determination. During the zenith of private organization social gospel folks of the Gilded Age, their reach was hardly anywhere near the capacity of the local, state, and federal governments. No amount of platitudes can overcome that reality.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

  5. #425
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    Re: What does disability mean to you and who qualifies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Ah, no. Very much relevant. You, Joe Bob Smith, don't have access to, nor are allowed access to, Jane Jackson's medical records to determine that she is not disabled or is disqualified.
    You know it occurred to me that the idea of denying yourself and others disability is rooted in some pretty unhealthy, typically American thinking. I am referring to the "tough guy" image. That pick-yourself- upbyyourbootstraps, cowboy thing we impose on one another. We work ourselves to death and if you don't then you're the one doing something wrong. Why else would anyone push themselves to exhaustion because of pain and then be proud of themselves for what they forced themselves to endure? Why is it an issue of pride to care for yourself? As if, denying yourself what you need to improve the quality of your life somehow makes you a better person. Seems a little foolish and martyerish to me. If we have the resources to keep people out of pain by either providing the medical care they need or relieving them from working all day why would we not do that? So that we can see their toughing it out??? Rising to our ridiculous standards of sacrifice and denial?? Not being a pussy?? Stupid.
    "Judge a man by his questions rather than his answers" - Voltaire
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  6. #426
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    Re: What does disability mean to you and who qualifies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    JC, when you are able to look at how life for the disabled was prior to government programs and interventions, you are able to make that determination.
    In the developing world these conditions can still be observed, especially in regard to mental disability.

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    Re: What does disability mean to you and who qualifies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    JC, when you are able to look at how life for the disabled was prior to government programs and interventions, you are able to make that determination. During the zenith of private organization social gospel folks of the Gilded Age, their reach was hardly anywhere near the capacity of the local, state, and federal governments. No amount of platitudes can overcome that reality.
    Also we can and do make highly worthwhile contributions to society. Stephen Hawking comes to mind just to start

  8. #428
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    Re: What does disability mean to you and who qualifies?

    Quote Originally Posted by JC Callender View Post
    You're assuming that the great leaps in technology that have led us all to live more comfortable, safer lives are all due to the government. I think that the amazing ingenuity of America before there were even welfare and disability payments would've continued and we would've found ways to take care of each other without the government.
    Technology and advances in industrial America, while aiding to benefit Americans writ large (both non-disabled and disabled) also led to the further degradation of the disabled person's status in American life.

    Public policy has played an important role in shaping the lives of all Americans in the twentieth century, as stated-related activity has become central to the functioning of all levels of the economy and most arenas of public life. Government has served as a major contextual factor in much of private life as well, by promoting technological development and establishing ground rules for many kids of private transactions. People with disabilities, however, have had a larger stake than many other citizens in the expanding role of the state in economic and social life as, with the rise of the industrial economy, they came to be stigmatized and excluded. The accommodations people with disabilities may require for participation in public life have often depended on state subsidies or mandates. Political scientist Harlan Hahn, in his analysis of the barriers to participation faced by disabled people, writes that "all aspects of the environment [for people with disabilities]...are fundamentally molded by public policy." Richard K. Scotch, "American Disability Policy in the Twentieth Century"
    Of course, this is but one scholar. I have plenty of texts on vocational rehabilitation published since the 1950s that echo similar thoughts.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

  9. #429
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    Re: What does disability mean to you and who qualifies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    JC, when you are able to look at how life for the disabled was prior to government programs and interventions, you are able to make that determination. During the zenith of private organization social gospel folks of the Gilded Age, their reach was hardly anywhere near the capacity of the local, state, and federal governments. No amount of platitudes can overcome that reality.
    When you can take whatever you want and affect whatever you desire to affect your influence will be great. No surprise there.

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    Re: What does disability mean to you and who qualifies?

    Quote Originally Posted by opendebate View Post
    You know it occurred to me that the idea of denying yourself and others disability is rooted in some pretty unhealthy, typically American thinking. I am referring to the "tough guy" image. That pick-yourself- upbyyourbootstraps, cowboy thing we impose on one another. We work ourselves to death and if you don't then you're the one doing something wrong. Why else would anyone push themselves to exhaustion because of pain and then be proud of themselves for what they forced themselves to endure? Why is it an issue of pride to care for yourself? As if, denying yourself what you need to improve the quality of your life somehow makes you a better person. Seems a little foolish and martyerish to me. If we have the resources to keep people out of pain by either providing the medical care they need or relieving them from working all day why would we not do that? So that we can see their toughing it out??? Rising to our ridiculous standards of sacrifice and denial?? Not being a pussy?? Stupid.
    Disability public policy has historically been heavily imbued with the external sense that the disabled person has to earn the status of benefactor before being granted any sort of accommodation, entrance to the public square, or subsidies.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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