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So Who Won?

Who Won on the Budget Compromise?


  • Total voters
    75
What is the MO of this clown?
Does he always play loose with, not facts, but the reality of the idea of what facts mean..
Excuse me, but Socrates was talking about you. You did dismiss my arguement and call it conspiracy theory, which is a slanderous and cheap attempt to avoid the debate that you have obviously lost because the facts aren't on your side and neither is history. Now go ahead and post in caps and post all your little smiley's and pretend you know more than you really do....we've all seen your act before.
I'm trying to figure out why I took d-boy off of ......!
 
Present Moment Awareness--not your forte d-boy..
it was YOUR assertion that spending bills must start in the House.
and I would be correct..
I stated that only REVENUE bills must begin there
and you would be wrong..
What passed tonight was a SPENDING bill which, as stated previously, can originate in either house.
Oh my--are you saying there were no taxes in this CR??no tax-collecting until mid-Jan.??I guess Repubs really did win then, since they are tax scofflaws..
It is currently YOUR challenge to prove that SPENDING bills must originate in the House.
still waiting...
You present no challenge/challenges .
 
Which facts are those?
The fact that the GOP didn't have enough votes to pass a bill to defund Obamacare.

Didn't the GOP win in the 2010 election?

Didn't Obama and Harry Reid win the 2012 election?

Didn't the President describe it as a 'shellacking'?
What was he referring to?

My conspiracy theory assertion was after you brought out a list of unrelated topics (Freedomworks, Heritage, etc.) even claiming erroneously that Kock's founded it...and now you claim I don't have facts on my side...yeah the 'act' is obvious to anyone willing to see.
You just keep proving my assertion....


Meet one of the conservative advocacy groups behind the GOP's government shutdown strategy


'"....The activists at Heritage Action, one of the conservative groups that successfully persuaded enough Republicans to refuse to fund the government unless the federal health care law is defunded, is not sorry about the shutdown.

And Michael Needham, CEO of Heritage Action, thinks that if this goes on long enough, Democrats will have no choice but to back down.

More than a week into the first government shutdown since the Bill Clinton era, groups such as Heritage Action on the right continue to urge lawmakers not to negotiate a measure to fully fund the government unless they include riders to effectively dismantle the Affordable Care Act, also known as Obamacare.

“The only acceptable way out of this is some sort of deal that funds the federal government without funding Obamacare,” Needham told reporters at a breakfast on Wednesday sponsored by the Christian Science Monitor. “This is a fight about Obamacare, and the attention of Republicans and conservatives needs to be back on Obamacare and not on other ways out of this situation.”

The group’s doggedness about the GOP strategy, combined with muscle on the inside from dozens of conservative House members and Republican Sens. Ted Cruz of Texas and Mike Lee of Utah, puts Republicans in a tough position going into negotiations to resolve the impasse with Democrats. The group’s regularly updated legislative scorecard, which tracks votes and issues it believes help separate the conservatives from the RINOS (Republicans In Name Only), serves as a public shaming mechanism for Republicans that wander astray.

In August, the group ramped up the pressure by joining with its sister organization, the Heritage Foundation, for a nine-city town-hall tour that drummed up support in the states for the plan to link Obamacare defunding to must-pass legislation like the bill to fund the government.

I was mistaken....Heritage Foundation was founded by the Coors....however......


Heritage Foundation is also a part of the Koch Foundation Associate Program.....

Partner Organizations | Charles Koch Institute
 
because it was just as much to show the public who where the republicans rinos who were not willing to fight to save them from the train wreck

grasping-at-straws.jpg


You're trying way too hard to save face. This was never about an conscientious battle of ideas within the GOP. It was from the onset a GOP v. Democrat battle. The Tea Party overplayed its hand and hoped the GOP would follow them on it. Cooler heads prevailed. The savages lost.
 
Which is a painfully ignorant thing to do. The repercussions from a prolonged shutdown are unknown for sure, but potentially devastating.

Redress, you are a smart guy. Haven't you figured out that's what the Far Right wants? They want to destroy this President, and if it means destroying the economy of this country in the process and collapsing the stock market, that's fine with them.
 
What is the MO of this clown?
Does he always play loose with, not facts, but the reality of the idea of what facts mean..

I'm trying to figure out why I took d-boy off of ......!
His MO is the same as all the clowns. Meh, when will I ever learn not to feed the....clowns? I think I'll stop with this one. lol
 
Redress, you are a smart guy. Haven't you figured out that's what the Far Right wants? They want to destroy this President, and if it means destroying the economy of this country in the process and collapsing the stock market, that's fine with them.

No, they just want to make $$$, and being the ones who make the most sensational claims drives ratings through the roof.
 
Haven't you figured out that's what the Far Right wants?

Revenues - expenses = surplus/deficit

Surplus/deficit x 237 = national debt

The far right wants to reduce the expenses in calculation one in order to reduce the national debt in calculation two.

In most families people get mad when the family decides to spend less money. In all non-profit organizations people get mad when they decide to spend less money. In all businesses the employees get mad when they decide to spend less money. The same human element is involved in government. We have to elect a bunch of meany heads to solve this problem. Meany heads have a hard time getting elected because well.......... they're meany heads. aka doody heads.

vasuderatorrent
 
Republicans won - hands down.

They cost the Government over 40 million dollars trying to repeal the ACA.
They cost the Government hundreds of millions with the shutdown.
They cost the economy hundreds of millions.
And they cost us a ton of credibility in the eyes of the world.

America has been severely damaged. And that is a Republican win.
 
Mod Repub Shays from CT asked for us not to diss and make fun of these '30 or so'..
He's the one who lost to McMahon/WWE in last year's Senate primary, luckily for Dems..
Shays admits these guys don't believe anything will happen..And Paul just lost the General with his vote NO, if he beats Christie .
Redress, you are a smart guy. Haven't you figured out that's what the Far Right wants? They want to destroy this President, and if it means destroying the economy of this country in the process and collapsing the stock market, that's fine with them.
 
This was never about an conscientious battle of ideas within the GOP. It was from the onset a GOP v. Democrat battle. The Tea Party overplayed its hand and hoped the GOP would follow them on it. Cooler heads prevailed. The savages lost.
Ryan votes no and carries the ball to the Conference..
he is on record as saying Obama would give in..
Rachel flipped 17 index cards as she read the riders that were defeated..LOL..
Then she read the one Repubs insisted on from the ACA--already in the ACA..
"Can't make this up"..Is that aquote an Obama original?
 
Nice smack-down on d-boy..I see he has turned tail..
Heritage Foundation was founded by the Coors....however......
Heritage Foundation is also a part of the Koch Foundation Associate Program.....
Partner Organizations | Charles Koch Institute
Speaking of Coors, we couldn't get it in IL in the late 60's/early 70's yet..
Dad would bring home cases from Iowa where he worked during the war at the Rock Island/etc. Arsenal
 
Nice smack-down on d-boy..I see he has turned tail..
Speaking of Coors, we couldn't get it in IL in the late 60's/early 70's yet..
Dad would bring home cases from Iowa where he worked during the war at the Rock Island/etc. Arsenal

Coors is piss water, you weren't missing anything.
 
They cost the Government over 40 million dollars trying to repeal the ACA.
They cost the Government hundreds of millions with the shutdown.

I have been hearing this a lot on TV. I fail to see the logic. How did shutting down the government cost extra money? I am not that dumb but my imagination can't conjure up a theory. Someone help me out. Why did the shutdown cost extra money?

vasuderatorrent
 
Lets count our chickens before they hatch. A deal has been reached, and the only possible place it might fail is in the house, but it will most likely make it through with some moderate republican votes. So who won? Not in terms of the effects of the bill, but which side got more of what they wanted, got the better deal from the compromise? What details I can find: Senate reaches deal to end shutdown, avoid default - CNN.com


Senate leaders announce tentative budget deal | Fox News




Deal reached to avoid default and open government



And



If any one has any better details on the bill, please link them.

So, with what we know now, did republicans or democrats get a better deal on the compromise?

No one "won", but Americans lost, yet again.
 
I don't think there are any "winners" here. However, there are clear losers. The GOP tanked their credibility with independents and moderates...but even moreso, the Teabaggers pretty much destroyed themselves as having any power and/or credibility. I suspect after this the more sane elements of the GOP are going to begin kicking the baggers to the curb. You know when even Senator Lee's numbers are dropping in Utah.....you are screwed.

With leftwing fanatical extremists like you on the Dems side, I really don't think the Tea Party folks are going anywhere. I can tell by the radical hackery going on in this thread, people are maligned for what they believe in. And you don't think you've ever shown an ounce of radical left, come on! You're a proponent of every hard left policy that comes down the pike. You think someone like you is allowed in the political arena and not the Tea Party? OMG
 
except for the true, this post is unrelated to mine..

So now you agree that spending bills CAN Constitutionally originate in the Senate...?
 
With leftwing fanatical extremists like you on the Dems side, I really don't think the Tea Party folks are going anywhere. I can tell by the radical hackery going on in this thread, people are maligned for what they believe in. And you don't think you've ever shown an ounce of radical left, come on! You're a proponent of every hard left policy that comes down the pike. You think someone like you is allowed in the political arena and not the Tea Party? OMG

I don't hide my leftist views, American. However, unlike the teabaggers, I'm realistic in my ideals. I would never think it appropriate to try to hold the American people hostage in order to push forward leftist legislation. I accept the fact that in order to get what overall is best for America, I take my "victories" in small doses. The teabaggers are fools because, despite public opinion, they convinced themselves that Americans would rally around their cause. I have no such misperceptions. I recognize that despite my hopes and wishes for a more leftist American culture, most Americans are moderates and aren't going to go that far. I have no problem with teabaggers having their views....what I have a problem with is tactics like extortion when you simply don't have the support for those views.
 
Present Moment Awareness--not your forte d-boy..
Ad hominem noted...
and I would be correct..and you would be wrong..
But you have yet to substantiate that spending bills must begin in the house. Weird, do you think that just because you believe it makes it a fact?
Oh my--are you saying there were no taxes in this CR??
There were no NEW taxes included in this CR but please correct me if I'm wrong.
no tax-collecting until mid-Jan.??
Huh? Were taxes not collected over the last two weeks during the shutdown? You know while were didn't have a CR...
I guess Repubs really did win then, since they are tax scofflaws..
Yes, this has been my assertion. The GOP did win. Sequester remains untouched, second tranche of sequester will be enacted untouched Jan 1 AND no new revenue (taxes)...
You present no challenge/challenges .
Actually I have, I'll restate it, where in the Constitution does it state spending bills must originate in the House.
 
It will be forgotten, but it will also be used as a bullet point by opponents of Republicans.
Exactly....conservative Dems will be talking about true fiscal irresponsibility....dragging the country repeatedly to the brink of default is not fiscal responsibility.

That message for some of the more conservative cities will mean something...the suburbs etc.
 
The fact that the GOP didn't have enough votes to pass a bill to defund Obamacare.

Yep, that's a fact...which I never presented a position that differed.


Didn't Obama and Harry Reid win the 2012 election?
Yep, that's a fact...which I never presented a position that differed.

What was he referring to?
The 2010 election results which is what I initiated this line of discussion with after you stated 'the 2012 election was a referendum on PPACA'.

You just keep proving my assertion....
How so?

I was mistaken....Heritage Foundation was founded by the Coors....however......
Thank you for acknowledging a FACT.

Heritage Foundation is also a part of the Koch Foundation Associate Program.....
Yes they are, and that means what exactly?
 
I have been hearing this a lot on TV. I fail to see the logic. How did shutting down the government cost extra money? I am not that dumb but my imagination can't conjure up a theory. Someone help me out. Why did the shutdown cost extra money?

vasuderatorrent

Well, it certtainly cost the economy quite a bit. Estimates are about $22B or so. Its affected GDP slightly. In the end, that will hit tax revenue.

You've also basically given federal employees three weeks paid vacation. 800k workers. We paid them. No productivity - they didnt collect fines, fees, national park admissions, etc. The FDA shut down, thus delaying any drug approvals, and the corresponding millions that they collect in user fees. Whats the interest on $100MM in a bank account for three weeks?

Working on an NIH grant with hundreds of rare genetically bred mice bloodlines? You're screwed out of your lab for three weeks. And you sacrifice lots of expensive animals for no real reason. So much for that experiment. Studying whales in the arctic? If you have a grant and your research is dependent upon NOAA ships, looks like your data collection window is destroyed for the next six months.

Thats just off the top of my head.
 
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