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So Who Won?

Who Won on the Budget Compromise?

  • Total voters
    75
polgara said:
I'm perplexed! On October 14, at 2015, I posted that I had just looked at the debt clock, and it showed $17T,330B,909M and counting. It is now showing $16T,964B,074M, and counting.. Can the debt clock go backwards if enough monies come in? Weird!

Greetings, Ernst Barkmann. :2wave:
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greetings ...:)

no the debt has not gone backwards..

when america crosses the 17 trillion mark, definitely FOX will sing out about it...the other MSM, i dont know.
 
sawyerloggingon said:
Dems one hands down and America starts its decline of the Roman Empire era.
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The decline started in 1980. Irreversible. The con game that we've played with our fiat currency is drawing to a close.
 
a351 said:
Interest rates on US debt are nearly entirely in fixed form, meaning that a shift in short term interest rates would not apply to the cumulative US debt but rather the deficits incurred in the short term future. Not nearly as catastrophic a scenario as some would have you believe.
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i do know interest rise and fall, and interest will not stay where it is forever, it will rise sooner of later.
 
AlabamaPaul said:
Yes, it can. Good evening pg...
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I've never seen it do anything but march relentlessly upward! :wow: Good to know reverse gear works, too!

Good evening, AP! :2wave: I've missed your posts, hope you and yours are well!
 
DaveFagan said:
The decline started in 1980. Irreversible. The con game that we've played with our fiat currency is drawing to a close.
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It may have started then but it is coming to a head now and I believe we are in our final days. I'm actually glad that I'm old and have most of my life in while things were pretty good.
 
polgara said:
I've never seen it do anything but march relentlessly upward! :wow: Good to know reverse gear works, too!

Good evening, AP! :2wave: I've missed your posts, hope you and yours are well!
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It's football season, so you can expect less posting... :mrgreen:
 
sbrettt said:
I don't know, because I don't understand exactly what the republicans wanted to accomplish.
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1. To establish themselves, most memorably, as the anti-Obamacare cassandras. If (as I think it will, big time) the ACA will backfire, they will be sitting pretty. If not, the general public will be focused on something else entirely.

2. Your basic "good cop-bad cop" play. Collins, Murkowski and Ayotte had acquired a whole lot of influence, with minimal political capital expenditure. And while they may be "moderates" from the mass-media POV, just comparing their cool, professional conduct with the behavior of Harry Reid and Co will probably give the all-important independent voter some thoughts Democrats most certainly don't want them to have...

3. The Dems also have "established themselves" - again - as the party unwilling or incapable of taking the debt issue seriously.

Our temporary inability to get really close to some historical monuments in DC is horrible, just horrible. But we will eventually get over it. I believe in our strength as a nation.

The annoyance will fade, but the really important questions will remain unanswered. And the ("tea-party", libertarian) Republicans at least will be able to claim that they have asked the questions - loudly and rudely (sorry about that), because they had no room or time for more refined behavior.
 
sawyerloggingon said:
It may have started then but it is coming to a head now and I believe we are in our final days. I'm actually glad that I'm old and have most of my life in while things were pretty good.
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I have 12 kids and the youngest is a 16 year old girl.. I really worry for their sakes. I think an economic crash is the best thing that could happen to our Nation because it would kill the War Machine that has control of us. We're tough suckers so we can rebuild and maybe fix the big errors caused by our Corporatist/Fascist plutocracy. Put a fence around your island.
 
DaveFagan said:
I have 12 kids and the youngest is a 16 year old girl.. I really worry for their sakes. I think an economic crash is the best thing that could happen to our Nation because it would kill the War Machine that has control of us. We're tough suckers so we can rebuild and maybe fix the big errors caused by our Corporatist/Fascist plutocracy. Put a fence around your island.
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Do you mean that war machine that provides protection for the country?
 
Moot said:
Both sides got what they wanted and a lot of what they didn't want.


The repubs demanded the defunding of Obamacare or they'd shutdown the government. They got the shutdown they wanted.

The dems didn't want the government shut down at all, nor did they want Obamacare defunded. The Repubs backed them into a corner with only those two choices...it was a "Sophies Choice". The dems chose to let the repubs shutdown the government to save Obamacare. So they got they wanted. But they shouldn't have been put in a Sophies Choice situation in the first place. Bullying and extrortion in lieu of democratic elections and negotiations is not acceptable.
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bullying and extortion?....what's wrong with using accurate and factual terms?... why do you Democrat insist on hyperbole?

negotiations would have headed all of this off before it came to a shutdown.... Democrats, very publicly, said " hell no" to negotiating on anything at all..that is a matter of record.
Democrats don't seem to share your belief that negotiations are acceptable... in fact ,they found them completely unacceptable in this particular case.
as for "democratic elections",..well, i'm not sure what that is supposed to mean... everybody involved in this fight was democratically elected

in any event, the GOP got nothing out of this, not even table scraps, and Democrats got their way.... that's just fact.
that's the way it has gone for 5 years now....
 
AlabamaPaul said:
Do you mean that war machine that provides protection for the country?
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I mean the War Machine that profits from constant war. We've not been attacked since WWII, but we've attacked lots of pseudo threats and imagined enemies. The Military/Industrial/Corporate plutocracy has grown fat and corrupt. It's not about freedom and democracy. It's about profit, greed, resources and all wrapped up in a neat media package with buzzwords and slogans and simplicity but nothing real. Take a good look at Syria and see who's side we are on. Libya and Qaddafi, the best leader Africa ever could hope for. Haiti, another success story for cheap labor. Iraq and the distribution network for petroleum has filled its coffers. Business doesn't need to win wars, just keep the profits rolling so have your promotion department gin up nice wars for profits. Resource distribution. Energy use because wars run on energy. The first profits of war go to the Energy producers and if you acquire resources for their distribution network, they profit again and again and again.
 
pbrauer said:
If you believe Obamacare will be a failure, why are the Republicans trying so hard to end it now? Why wouldn't they just let it happen and pickup the pieces of the Democratic party? The Republicans are afraid Obamacare will be a huge success just like Medicare is now.
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Because it is so destructive to the American people.

It is unconstitutional as are social security and Medicare. None of these programs are successes.
 
Redress said:
Which is a painfully ignorant thing to do. The repercussions from a prolonged shutdown are unknown for sure, but potentially devastating.
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When was the government shut down? Wasn't this more of a slim down with a few non-essential people told to stay home? And if they are non-essential then why do we keep them on the payroll?
 
Redress said:
Well, no. It is far more complex than you seem to realize.
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no its not, you see revenue still flows into Washington...about 250 billion a month.

with our debt payment about 25 billion a month, so the rest of the money would have to be allotted to make payments, which would fall on the WH, to decide, since they execute the law.

since money would need to be allotted, spending would have to be carefully looked at and only spent on things which are needed.

revenue is 10x the debt payment.
 
ernst barkmann said:
no its not, you see revenue still flows into Washington...about 250 billion a month.

with our debt payment about 25 billion a month, so the rest of the money would have to be allotted to make payments, which would fall on the WH, to decide, since they execute the law.

since money would need to be allotted, spending would have to be carefully looked at and only spend on things which are needed.

revenue is 10x the debt payment.
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You don't even make it past your first sentence befgore getting details wrong. The revenue that "flows in" does not come in steadily, some months more, some less, some alot less. Bills come due every single day by the thousands.
 
Henrin said:
You do realize the house practiced it's constitutional authority, right? If anything they should have put the entire budget on the line like they were supposed to do.
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And apparently the House is poised to give the president the power of the purse. I believe this means the nation I grew up in has ended. We now have a dictator and many foolish people who cheer him.
 
Redress said:
You don't even make it past your first sentence befgore getting details wrong. The revenue that "flows in" does not come in steadily, some months more, some less, some alot less. Bills come due every single day by the thousands.
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that is true about revenue, however on avenge it is correct, and i am correct about the debt payment.......revenue is much more then the debt payment.

we could never have defaulted.
 
Misterveritis said:
And apparently the House is poised to give the president the power of the purse. I believe this means the nation I grew up in has ended. We now have a dictator and many foolish people who cheer him.
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It's pretty sad to me that people don't seem to understand that the house is supposed to decide every year on what they are going to fund. There isn't supposed to be things that are predetermined to get funding as it is now. If the house desires to defund anything on the budget they have the power to do so. The fact that almost everyone on the budget is out of their grasp just shows how far this country has drifted.
 
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Thrilla said:
bullying and extortion?....what's wrong with using accurate and factual terms?... why do you Democrat insist on hyperbole?
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From the Brooke Brother riots, to the organized shout downs at townhall meetings, to holding the country hostage because they couldn't get the votes or win the election to undue a law.......sure looks like bullying to me. And when you plot to shut down the government unless it meets a minorities demands....extortions is just a nicer way to say fascism.



negotiations would have headed all of this off before it came to a shutdown.... Democrats, very publicly, said " hell no" to negotiating on anything at all..that is a matter of record.
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The democrats offered over 18X to negotiate in the seven months leading up to the deadline and Republicans said no every time....until a few hours before the deadline to make their outrageous demands or they'd shut down the government. That is not negotiations, that's extortion by definition.


Democrats don't seem to share your belief that negotiations are acceptable... in fact ,they found them completely unacceptable in this particular case. as for "democratic elections",..well, i'm not sure what that is supposed to mean... everybody involved in this fight was democratically elected

in any event, the GOP got nothing out of this, not even table scraps, and Democrats got their way.... that's just fact.
that's the way it has gone for 5 years now....
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I never said the democrats wanted to shut down the government....they weren't really given a choice unless you consider defunding Obamacare a choice...which it wasn't.

The 2012 election was a referendum on Obamacare and the Democrats won...thats just a fact, too. Why should the Democrats negotiate under the gun, what Republicans couldn't win in an election or get enough votes in congress? The only thing the republicans are going to get out of their underhanded shenagins...is booted out of office. Thats all they deserve.
 
Moot said:
From the Brooke Brother riots, to the organized shout downs at townhall meetings, to holding the country hostage because they couldn't get the votes or win the election to undue a law.......sure looks like bullying to me. And when you plot to shut down the government unless it meets a minorities demands....extortions is just a nicer way to say fascism.
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The republicans are the majority in the house. The majority in the house not funding a certain part of the budget is not the minority holding the country hostage. It's actually how the house is supposed to work.

The 2012 election was a referendum on Obamacare and the Democrats won...thats just a fact, too.
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Sorry, but the democrats are not in control of the house and everything that happened is in the realm of authority of the house.

If the election was a referendum on Obamacare then you will need to explain to me why the polls are all against it.
 
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Moot said:
The 2012 election was a referendum on Obamacare and the Democrats won...thats just a fact, too...
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Ok, what was the 2010 election a referendum on?...Oh and the Republicans won...that's just a fact, too...
 
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