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So Who Won?

Who Won on the Budget Compromise?

  • Total voters
    75
Henrin said:
How do we ever cut spending if people can't accept that will mean people will be fired? At some point people just need to realize that holding on to the "we can't do something because people will lose their jobs argument" just means that the government can only ever grow bigger and more expensive.
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Within the fed, that doesnt necessarily have to mean anyone will be fired. We have a fairly healthy attrition rate with people voluntarily separating or retiring. If there were an actual plan in place to reduce the size of the government it could be done fairly painlessly phased over several years. One of the problems is people retire, then re-hire as government employees or contractors...the "double and triple dippers." I dont have a problem with them doing it...it is legal. But I think there are lots of policies there that could be changed to bring about a desired affect.
 
Henrin said:
How do we ever cut spending if people can't accept that will mean people will be fired? At some point people just need to realize that holding on to the "we can't do something because people will lose their jobs argument" just means that the government can only ever grow bigger and more expensive. It will forever be that the party that wants more government authority and control will win every single debate. Not exactly a great prospect for the people, imho.
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you are assuming that cutting spending.. or even controlling spending.. is on the agenda.

it's not.
 
Henrin said:
How do we ever cut spending if people can't accept that will mean people will be fired? At some point people just need to realize that holding on to the "we can't do something because people will lose their jobs argument" just means that the government can only ever grow bigger and more expensive. It will forever be that the party that wants more government authority and control will win every single debate. Not exactly a great prospect for the people, imho.
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There is a large, unsubtle difference between drawing down and mass layoffs.
 
Henrin said:
Like usual republicans fail at politics even when they are in the right. Go figure.
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well from my observations, the senate republicans leadership mcconnelll mccain, to name a few.... sided with democrats, to have a bill sent over to the house.

the house leadership , John Boehner, with moderate republicans, then undercut the tea party republicans, by having democrats join them on a vote, to get the bill passed.

so the republican leadership torpedoed other republicans
 
Redress said:
There is a large, unsubtle difference between drawing down and mass layoffs.
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Drawing down would take decades and most likely never happen. The spending and authority of government would just grow over that time period and even if the cuts actually went through to their completion(which they wouldn't) there would be no noticeable difference at all.
 
ernst barkmann said:
well from my observations, the senate republicans leadership mcconnelll mccain, to name a few.... sided with democrats, to have a bill sent over to the house.

the house leadership , John Boehner, with moderate republicans, then undercut the tea party republicans, by having democrats join them on a vote, to get the bill passed.

so the republican leadership torpedoed other republicans
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Exactly and what is worse is that republicans didn't actually need to compromise at all. Republicans need to learn how to use peoples flaws against them and knowing Obama he would never allow history to remember him for allowing the country to default. They could have just ignored him and the senate until the very end and watch the democrats cave moments before default.

If you don't have that killer instinct then how are you ever going to win anything in politics? Then again, if it was me I would have sent them a worse deal each and every time I sent them one.
 
All I know is that a bunch of pissed off white guys in the house cost the taxpayers billions by stupidly getting into a dick-measuring contest with a black guy.
 
Tucker Case said:
All I know is that a bunch of pissed off white guys in the house cost the taxpayers billions by stupidly getting into a dick-measuring contest with a black guy.
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Never an end to the race card is there...
 
Henrin said:
Exactly and what is worse is that republicans didn't actually need to compromise at all. Republicans need to learn how to use peoples flaws against them and knowing Obama he would never allow history to remember him for allowing the country to default. They could have just ignored him and the senate until the very end and watch the democrats cave moments before default.

If you don't have that killer instinct then how are you ever going to win anything in politics?
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well this is a perfect example of the republicans and how they love to spend your money too.

the u.s. was never going to default becuase the revenue coming in is 10x the debt payment, all it means by going pass the 17 of oct was that the government would have to prioritize its spending, on things,and they could not throw money around so freely, wasting it.

but as you see, both parties want the ability to keep spending your money, and keeping themselves in power.
 
Heres the bill, assuming it passes.

http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/news/documents/2013/10/16/Senate_deal.PDF

Dems won of course. They got two weeks of free shots on the Republicans. Everything they wanted in the original CR PLUS an increase in the debt ceiling, and longer term until the next shutdown. However, this may very well help the tea party, encouraging them to challenge Republicans in November. And Republicans are going to block whatever comes next. Which means the Democrats succeeded in making more trouble for themselves.
 
ernst barkmann said:
well this is a perfect example of the republicans and how they love to spend your money too.

the u.s. was never going to default becuase the revenue coming in is 10x the debt payment, all it means by going pass the 17 of oct was that the government would have to prioritize its spending, on things,and they could not throw money around so freely, wasting it.

but as you see, both parties want the ability to keep spending your money, and keeping themselves in power.
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Exactly, I assumed this would happen because establishment Republicans care more about winning elections and power, than they do citizens freedom. Nothing will change until the people stop electing the same people.
 
Both sides got what they wanted and a lot of what they didn't want.


The repubs demanded the defunding of Obamacare or they'd shutdown the government. They got the shutdown they wanted.

The dems didn't want the government shut down at all, nor did they want Obamacare defunded. The Repubs backed them into a corner with only those two choices...it was a "Sophies Choice". The dems chose to let the repubs shutdown the government to save Obamacare. So they got they wanted. But they shouldn't have been put in a Sophies Choice situation in the first place. Bullying and extrortion in lieu of democratic elections and negotiations is not acceptable.
 
Details of budget/debt limit deal | Jamie Dupree's Washington Insider | www.ajc.com

The final deal includes:

+ An assurance that federal workers who were furloughed will be paid "as soon as practicable" for their time off

+ The deal would reimburse states that paid money for federal services (like operating National Parks) during the shutdown

+ The agreement requires the Department of Health and Human Services to send a report to the Congress on verification procedures that make sure people aren't getting subsidies for health insurance that they don't deserve

+ The final plan includes up to $450 million in emergency transportation aid for Colorado in the wake of recent flooding.

+ The Senate deal insures extra money to deploy two new U.S. weather satellite programs

+ The agreement would block any cost of living adjustment (pay raise) for Members of Congress in Fiscal Year 2014

+ The plan includes a $174,000 death benefit payment to the widow of the late Sen. Frank Lautenberg (D-NJ), who died earlier this year

One provision that caught my eye - simply because there was so little information was this:

SEC. 123. Section 3(a)(6) of Public Law 100–676 is amended by striking both occurrences of ‘‘$775,000,000’’ and inserting in lieu thereof, ‘‘$2,918,000,000’’.
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ernst barkmann said:
well this is a perfect example of the republicans and how they love to spend your money too.

the u.s. was never going to default becuase the revenue coming in is 10x the debt payment, all it means by going pass the 17 of oct was that the government would have to prioritize its spending, on things,and they could not throw money around so freely, wasting it.

but as you see, both parties want the ability to keep spending your money, and keeping themselves in power.
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If that is true or not really isn't that important. Obama was spouting about default for two weeks and it would still be the best path forward to put his balls to the fire and see how long before he squirms. Democrats are notorious for dirty politics and republicans are known for decisions that back fire due to their own stupidity and inability to play the game. Republicans are absolutely terrible at doing just about anything. They can't evaluate weaknesses, they can't play politics, they can't stand tall and fight, they can't control the message on something they started, they pretty much suck at everything. I'm completely sick of them.
 
people always complain about government, yet they elect the same people over and over, ..with the feelings,...... well at least my representatives are good.
 
Moot said:
Both sides got what they wanted and a lot of what they didn't want.


The repubs demanded the defunding of Obamacare or they'd shutdown the government. They got the shutdown they wanted.

The dems didn't want the government shut down at all, nor did they want Obamacare defunded. The Repubs backed them into a corner with only those two choices...it was a "Sophies Choice". The dems chose to let the repubs shutdown the government to save Obamacare. So they got they wanted. But they shouldn't have been put in a Sophies Choice situation in the first place. Bullying and extrortion in lieu of democratic elections and negotiations is not acceptable.
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Sorry, but the house is in control of spending. They can defund anything they damn well please and stand by that stance for however long they desire.
 
Henrin said:
If that is true or not really isn't that important. Obama was spouting about default for two weeks and it would still be the best path forward to put his balls to the fire and see how long before he squirms. Democrats are notorious for dirty politics and republicans are known for decisions that back fire due to their own stupidity and inability to play the game. Republicans are absolutely terrible at doing just about anything. They can't evaluate weaknesses, they can't play politics, they can't stand tall and fight, they can't control the message on something they started, they pretty much suck at everything. I'm completely sick of them.
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i came to realize several years ago, i could not support republicans, because they are no different then democrats.

a perfect example of this is the 6 years the republican controlled the government , and they did not...reduce spending, they spent more, they did not get rid of departments, ,which they had said they would in the past, they grew government and created laws which infringe on our rights.

democrats and republicans, sleep in the same bed, that is government waste, irresponsibility, and loathing of the people, who they believe to be stupid.
 
Redress said:
Depends on the amount. Long as defic growth is lower than economic growth it is harmless.
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False, as long as there is debt interest builds
 
ernst barkmann said:
i came to realize several years ago, i could not support republicans, because they are no different then democrats.

a perfect example of this is the 6 years the republican controlled the government , and they did not...reduce spending, they spent more, they did not get rid of departments, ,which they had said they would in the past, they grew government and created laws which infringe on our rights.

democrats and republicans, sleep in the same bed, that is government waste, irresponsibility, and loathing of the people, who they believe to be stupid.
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I don't doubt that republicans actually hold to the same philosophy that democrats do. The only real difference between them is that the democrats have the balls to admit it and the republicans don't. I'm just saying that republicans are generally horrible politicians that don't know the first thing about what they are doing.
 
Theres a change in the deal which changes 2 billion in infrastructure projects in Kentucky to 6 billion. Mitch McConnell's home state.
 
Henrin said:
I don't doubt that republicans actually hold to the same philosophy that democrats do. The only real difference between them is that the democrats have the balls to admit it and the republicans don't. I'm just saying that republicans are generally horrible politicians that don't know the first thing about what they are doing.
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Except Dems don't admit it. They lie and distract and no one calls them on it. That's the real difference. Republicans are transparent (due to the media). Democrats are not.
 
Henrin said:
I don't doubt that republicans actually hold to the same philosophy that democrats do. The only real difference between them is that the democrats have the balls to admit it and the republicans don't. I'm just saying that republicans are generally horrible politicians that don't know the first thing about what they are doing.
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well, in my 30 years in the political arena, it is usually always the republican leadership, that hurts the party, this is not the first time, the leadership has undercut the party as a whole.

so now the republican party will have to see if the people remember them in nov 2014......however the people do have short attention spans.
 
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