View Poll Results: Who Won on the Budget Compromise?

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  • Democrats got a larger share of what they wanted

    54 61.36%
  • Republicans got the larger share of what they wanted

    4 4.55%
  • Both got about the same

    8 9.09%
  • Other/Don't know

    22 25.00%
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Thread: So Who Won?

  1. #261
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    Re: So Who Won?

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    Sigh. Fortunately I do not have to correct your many errors.
    You could answer the point.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  2. #262
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    Re: So Who Won?

    If anyone is still confused about 'Who Won", I think the latest ABC/WaPo poll is pretty clear-\

    Poll Results Just Keep Getting Worse and Worse for Republicans | Mother Jones

    So Who Won?-blog_abc_poll_shutdown_2013_10_21-jpg

  3. #263
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    Re: So Who Won?

    Quote Originally Posted by Threegoofs View Post
    If anyone is still confused about 'Who Won", I think the latest ABC/WaPo poll is pretty clear-\

    Poll Results Just Keep Getting Worse and Worse for Republicans | Mother Jones

    So Who Won?-blog_abc_poll_shutdown_2013_10_21-jpg
    Again, poll results regarding what people think about things does not...in any way shape or form...answer the question of "who won" as it relates to the terms of that question within this thread.

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    Re: So Who Won?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Again, poll results regarding what people think about things does not...in any way shape or form...answer the question of "who won" as it relates to the terms of that question within this thread.

    uhhh. How to you figure?

    If you have some sort of 'win' in terms of concessions, (which is pretty clear the GOP did not) it kinda gets trumped by getting your ass beat in the next election and possibly losing the House, dontcha think?

    Now we dont know if that will happen, but the chances of it happening are exponentially better than at the beginning of the month. I call that an indication of a potentialy significant loss.

  5. #265
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    Re: So Who Won?

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    LOL....there were no "backroom deals". It passed the same way all legislation passes.
    Wait what? Just wanting to find out if you're being literal here to try and work a loophole or if you actually believe this.

    You believe that all legislation...or even most legislation...have a substantial amendment passed through a reconcilliation process and signed 7 days after the original bill is passed, the creation of which was promised by the Speaker at the time to a multitude of Democratic Congressman as a way of winning their votes to a bill that by itself they opposed? (NYT)

    It was "passed the same way all legislation passes", IE voted on by one house then voted on by another. But its passage was due to a "backroom deal" for an immediete amendment to be done to a number of portions of the senates bill in exchange for their support on the votes.

    It's also accurate to say that it's unusual and atypical, but fully within the rules of congress, for a bill to be passed by the senate, approved by the House, and then amended 7 days later via the reconcilliation process. The TYPICAL manner in which the Houses disagreements on a bill sent from the Senate is address is through passing their own bill and having it go to a conference comittee and then back to both houses.

    Then again, there's nothing inherently wrong with "unusual" or "atypical"...but it's a wonderful example showing that both sides wantonly utilize atypical congressional loopholes, procedures, and actions to achieve their goals.

    But yes...it was absolutely through "backroom deals" of sorts that the votes were able to be gained in the House when they were previously opposed, which then allowed for it to be passed in the normal process and then unusually amended in an atypical manner.

  6. #266
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    Re: So Who Won?

    Quote Originally Posted by Threegoofs View Post
    uhhh. How to you figure?
    By reading the OP:

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    So who won? Not in terms of the effects of the bill, but which side got more of what they wanted, got the better deal from the compromise?
    Their post was focused on and asking who got the better deal legislatively...not in terms of the effects the bill will have on the electorate and others. What I "think" regarding the impact of this on the next election is irrelevant to the question of "Who Won" as it relates to this thread (on the record, I'm of a similar mind as Nate Silver. Little real impact, likely resulting in a few house seats loss but very little chance of this itself costing the Republicans the House).

    As it relates to the OP, my stance still is that by and large the Democrats clearly came out the winner in regards to the legislative detalis of the compromise...they staved off all attempts to derail Obamacare, got the debt ceiling extended, and pushed the next debate to a point where Obamacare will have began to already substantially intigrate into the system making it far more difficult for Republicans to leverage the next date as a means of attacking it again.

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    Re: So Who Won?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    By reading the OP:



    Their post was focused on and asking who got the better deal legislatively...not in terms of the effects the bill will have on the electorate and others. What I "think" regarding the impact of this on the next election is irrelevant to the question of "Who Won" as it relates to this thread (on the record, I'm of a similar mind as Nate Silver. Little real impact, likely resulting in a few house seats loss but very little chance of this itself costing the Republicans the House). .
    I agree with your take on it, but I think a poll that I referenced above makes me think that Silver may end up underestimating the impact. This kind of wound might be a lot deeper in peoples memories just a short year away. Then again, maybe not.

    But if it DOES play a major role and the House does swing Dem (I think the Senate was at risk for going GOP.. I think thats less likely now), it will be unquestionable that the Democrats get the better deal legislatively long term, in addition the short term 'win' which really was just extending the status quo.

  8. #268
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    Re: So Who Won?

    What's probabaly going to happen is that they are going to have to delay the individual mandate, which was a big negotiating point for the GOP. And the Dems are going to get a whole lot of cheshire cat grinning from Republicans.

  9. #269
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    Re: So Who Won?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Again, poll results regarding what people think about things does not...in any way shape or form...answer the question of "who won" as it relates to the terms of that question within this thread.
    Keep telling yourself that. Eventually even you might believe it.
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  10. #270
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    Re: So Who Won?

    Quote Originally Posted by KLATTU View Post
    What's probabaly going to happen is that they are going to have to delay the individual mandate, which was a big negotiating point for the GOP. And the Dems are going to get a whole lot of cheshire cat grinning from Republicans.
    Yeah, if I was a Republican - which thank God I'm not - I'd be turning cartwheels about how well this turned out for me.
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