View Poll Results: Should Obamacare be eliminated?

Voters
83. You may not vote on this poll
  • No, Obamacare is great and more important than everything else combined

    10 12.05%
  • Yes, dump the lemon before it causes more suffering.

    38 45.78%
  • No, but it needs MAJOR serious changes.

    7 8.43%
  • Yes, replace it with real universal health care.

    28 33.73%
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Thread: Do you support Obamacare?

  1. #71
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    Re: Do you support Obamacare?

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    do you support Obamacare now?
    I don't know. It hasn't been implemented yet. Ask me in about 5 years I'll let you know.

    vasuderatorrent

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    Re: Do you support Obamacare?

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    Prove what you claim.

    No, we do not have insurance. Don't plan to get it. We prefer the best medical care, not gambling large sums of $$ mostly to pay for other people as we seeking the potential of some day waiting in line for inferior medical care paid for by an insurance company. We are none so foolish as to think we can get something for nothing or come out money ahead by paying for the 90% of medical costs of other people.

    Besides, why get it now anyway? Why not wait until one of us needs it and then use we can't be turned down for a pre-existing condition?
    Why not get insurance now that you can and stop gambling that you won't be bankrupted by some accident. It is childish to think that you are immune from harm.
    At least find out what you can qualify for at your income level before you ride bareback thru life.

  3. #73
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    Re: Do you support ObamaCare?

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    Naw, you understood exactly what I posted.
    Of course I did. And it does not follow.
    "I did not mean that Conservatives are generally stupid people. I meant that stupid people are generally Conservatives."
    -John Stuart Mill-

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    Re: Do you support Obamacare?

    Quote Originally Posted by vasuderatorrent View Post
    I don't know. It hasn't been implemented yet. Ask me in about 5 years I'll let you know.

    vasuderatorrent
    So you support everything and then will just see how it goes.

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    Re: Do you support Obamacare?

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    So you support everything and then will just see how it goes.
    No, He has faith that the Govt. is not trying to kill him. You should try it sometime.

  6. #76
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    Re: Do you support Obamacare?

    I spoke with a good friend yesterday about Obamacare. This is a really smart guy especially with numbers and holds degrees in economics and accounting. He's also a diehard Tea Party supporter who breathes Fox News Channel and sends me about 25 or so Obama bashing emails a week, always something he forwarded from somewhere else or copied and pasted; never anything he wrote originally. That's fine and I know he's busy. He just does not like the President and is in deep in the current right-wing political culture. I'm pretty sure few actually write their own original anti-Obama stuff and I'm not complaining; just giving some insight on where he is politically.

    He presented a good case for health insurance premiums going up factoring in the tens of millions of people who will soon have their healthcare expenses including but not limited to pre-existing conditions and no lifetime limits added to the gross national healthcare costs that will inevitably force everyone's health insurance premiums to go up. This is somebody I highly respect when it comes to money so I cannot just dismiss what he says. However, I asked him what factor would the tens of millions of new people now paying monthly premiums to a health insurance policy would play who previously were simply showing up at the ER for free, the most expensive place to get healthcare. This often after their condition has reached advanced stages and is more expensive to treat and then those costs were previously passed onto the hospitals to absorb who pass it on to insured patients who end up paying larger premiums or taxes to cover the costs of the uninsured who will soon be paying for their own insurance. He was almost completely lost for words and seemingly forgot that under Obamacare 50 million new people will soon start PAYING premiums every month and hospitals will no longer have to factor into their business model the costs of a load of expensive patients who show up at the er with no insurance. He eventually came up with something to do with gold, silver and bronze plans and the people with the more expensive plans will have to subsidize people with low budget plans and the government costs of hiring some incalculable number of federal workers to regulate the American healthcare industry but the question did seem to catch him off guard.

    My thinking is even if the 50 million presently uninsured are paying less than what the most expensive gold plan cost, wouldn't paying into a less expensive plan still SIGNIFICANTLY CONTRIBUTE to the overall costs of healthcare? I just ran the math (admittedly not my best subject) and if 50 million people all of a sudden start paying health insurance premiums of just $75 a month each and I suspect that's a really, really, really low estimate; that's a new almost $45 billion a year to underwrite the costs of healthcare, most of whom are healthier younger people who won't require expensive treatment.

    Do those who don't like Obamacare due to concerns over costs consider the fact that a new market of 50 million people will soon be paying premiums or are they only thinking 50 million people will get to go to the doctor?
    Having opinions all over the map is a good sign of a person capable of autonomous thinking. Felix -2011

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    Re: Do you support Obamacare?

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    So you support everything and then will just see how it goes.
    Support what? I all I hear is a bunch of talking politicians. Which one do I believe? Give me 5 years and get back to me.

    vasuderatorrent

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    Re: Do you support Obamacare?

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    Why not get insurance now that you can and stop gambling that you won't be bankrupted by some accident. It is childish to think that you are immune from harm.
    At least find out what you can qualify for at your income level before you ride bareback thru life.
    That would be foolish given none of us can be turned down if something does happen. So why not wait until then?

    Insurance is just gambling, nothing else. No medical condition could bankrupt us in the worse case senario. Although greatly diminished now, over the last 6 years my wife's medical related expensive tops well over $500K. We have no debts, medical or otherwise.

    Our income levels would not qualify us to be able to get others to pay any of the insurance premiums, most doctors we use don't want or outright won't accept insurance, and for us I see it as a bad gamble.

    The entire premise of insurance is that the premiums ultimately will cost you more than the benefits you received. Thinking you win by buying insurance is like thinking you'll make money gambling in Las Vegas - other than the odds are better at casinos than the payout of insurance companies.

    For people who aren't seniors and with children who have limited savings, what would be more ethical would be to buy life insurance, not health insurance, to prevent their children becoming destitute if the parent(s) die.

    Finally, if you have little to no money, it makes more sense to preserve the option of bankruptcy and keep the extra thousands of dollars a year, that barely make it hand to mouth due to paying massive insurance premiums.

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    Re: Do you support Obamacare?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    I think pretty much everything in this post is a lie. Don't believe any of it.
    Got proof? "I think" pretty much means you're saying that it is a lie in your opinion.

  10. #80
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    Re: Do you support Obamacare?

    Quote Originally Posted by Smeagol View Post
    I spoke with a good friend yesterday about Obamacare. This is a really smart guy especially with numbers and holds degrees in economics and accounting. He's also a diehard Tea Party supporter who breathes Fox News Channel and sends me about 25 or so Obama bashing emails a week, always something he forwarded from somewhere else or copied and pasted; never anything he wrote originally. That's fine and I know he's busy. He just does not like the President and is in deep in the current right-wing political culture. I'm pretty sure few actually write their own original anti-Obama stuff and I'm not complaining; just giving some insight on where he is politically.

    He presented a good case for health insurance premiums going up factoring in the tens of millions of people who will soon have their healthcare expenses including but not limited to pre-existing conditions and no lifetime limits added to the gross national healthcare costs that will inevitably force everyone's health insurance premiums to go up. This is somebody I highly respect when it comes to money so I cannot just dismiss what he says. However, I asked him what factor would the tens of millions of new people now paying monthly premiums to a health insurance policy would play who previously were simply showing up at the ER for free, the most expensive place to get healthcare. This often after their condition has reached advanced stages and is more expensive to treat and then those costs were previously passed onto the hospitals to absorb who pass it on to insured patients who end up paying larger premiums or taxes to cover the costs of the uninsured who will soon be paying for their own insurance. He was almost completely lost for words and seemingly forgot that under Obamacare 50 million new people will soon start PAYING premiums every month and hospitals will no longer have to factor into their business model the costs of a load of expensive patients who show up at the er with no insurance. He eventually came up with something to do with gold, silver and bronze plans and the people with the more expensive plans will have to subsidize people with low budget plans and the government costs of hiring some incalculable number of federal workers to regulate the American healthcare industry but the question did seem to catch him off guard.

    My thinking is even if the 50 million presently uninsured are paying less than what the most expensive gold plan cost, wouldn't paying into a less expensive plan still SIGNIFICANTLY CONTRIBUTE to the overall costs of healthcare? I just ran the math (admittedly not my best subject) and if 50 million people all of a sudden start paying health insurance premiums of just $75 a month each and I suspect that's a really, really, really low estimate; that's a new almost $45 billion a year to underwrite the costs of healthcare, most of whom are healthier younger people who won't require expensive treatment.

    Do those who don't like Obamacare due to concerns over costs consider the fact that a new market of 50 million people will soon be paying premiums or are they only thinking 50 million people will get to go to the doctor?
    50 million people are NOT going to start paying premiums. Rather, the IRS is going to be hunting 40 million people and taking the penalty for not having insurance out of their tax returns if they have a job and have anything coming back.

    Second, how you figure 50 million people paying $75 a month are going to pay for 100 million other people whose medical bills average $10,000 per year is what you see as "good math?" The average family of 4 now costs over $20,000 per year in medical expenses. Now, added to that, is an expectation they also pay for insurance to those who don't have any? And you think a hope that 50 million people will just decide for some reason to pay $75 a month and none of them will need $1 in healthcare costs too will pay for all that????

    You are correct that you aren't very good with math.

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