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Thread: should the president enforce an exective order to pay us bills before oct 17

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    Re: should the president enforce an exective order to pay us bills before oct 17

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    It's not an order to the Legislative branch...it's an order to the Treasury to sell Treasury Bills to finance US appropriations...made by Congress
    Someone already posted a link to who's job it was...even highlighted it. I think it was post 3.

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    Re: should the president enforce an exective order to pay us bills before oct 17

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Someone already posted a link to who's job it was...even highlighted it. I think it was post 3.
    Since when is not raising the debt ceiling to cover obligations Congress has already incurred "enforcing" the 14th Amendment....?
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: should the president enforce an exective order to pay us bills before oct 17

    Quote Originally Posted by plutonium View Post
    should the prez execute an executive order to pay bills, vets and gov workers already acrued by congress so the u.s. will not have an economic disaster in the world... and / can the supreme court help verify it first..
    Yes to the first question.
    No to the second question.

    This is a dumb discussion. The debt limit will be increased without any problems.

    vasuderatorrent

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    Re: should the president enforce an exective order to pay us bills before oct 17

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    The simple fact is Executive Orders hold no sway with regard to congress. Congress is responsible for paying the bills. Thats fact. Wanting it to be different does not make it so, your own constitutional interpretation notwithstanding.
    XOs hold sway in the federal sector. the President directs treasury to satisfy just federal obligations, as is expected by the 14th amendment, then they do it
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    Re: should the president enforce an exective order to pay us bills before oct 17

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    Since when is not raising the debt ceiling to cover obligations Congress has already incurred "enforcing" the 14th Amendment....?
    Dont see the relevance of your question to appropriate powers and executive orders, so I will answer your question with a question..When is a "debt ceiling" NOT a "debt ceiling"?

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    Re: should the president enforce an exective order to pay us bills before oct 17

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    XOs hold sway in the federal sector. the President directs treasury to satisfy just federal obligations, as is expected by the 14th amendment, then they do it
    No...they dont. Do you see anywhere in the 14th where it authorizes the Exec to enforce provisions of the 14th?

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    Re: should the president enforce an exective order to pay us bills before oct 17

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Dont see the relevance of your question to appropriate powers and executive orders, so I will answer your question with a question..When is a "debt ceiling" NOT a "debt ceiling"?
    Tell me how there's no relevance.
    1. Constitution states the US shall make good on it's obligations
    2. Constitution states US Congress is in charge of enforcing that provision.
    So on what planet is not raising the debt ceiling enforcing a provision that we make good on our obligations. So you believe...that the making good on US obligations can be tossed out...but DON'T DARE! circumvent Congress because that one specific part is sacrosanct.

    As for when is a debt ceiling not a debt ceiling....well most sane people realized that the debt ceiling is an ****ing stupid idea and the Gephardt Rule was in place. When Congress passed a budget the debt ceiling was raised the amount needed to fund those appropriations. So technically the "debt ceiling" wasn't a "debt ceiling" from 1979 till 1995.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: should the president enforce an exective order to pay us bills before oct 17

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    Tell me how there's no relevance.
    1. Constitution states the US shall make good on it's obligations
    2. Constitution states US Congress is in charge of enforcing that provision.
    So on what planet is not raising the debt ceiling enforcing a provision that we make good on our obligations. So you believe...that the making good on US obligations can be tossed out...but DON'T DARE! circumvent Congress because that one specific part is sacrosanct.

    As for when is a debt ceiling not a debt ceiling....well most sane people realized that the debt ceiling is an ****ing stupid idea and the Gephardt Rule was in place. When Congress passed a budget the debt ceiling was raised the amount needed to fund those appropriations. So technically the "debt ceiling" wasn't a "debt ceiling" from 1979 till 1995.
    The debt ceiling debate happens about every year and a half. The idea is that there is some new baseline established...only THIS high...and no more, because too much debt is a BAD thing. When your 'debt' is 1-2 trillion, thats not a really big deal considering GNP and economic growth trends. When your debt is INCREASING 1-2 trillion every YEAR and your current debt is over 17 trillion and climbing, with interest obligations along at almost half a trillion annually, then debt ceiling hikes HAVE to start becoming more than some last minute dog and pony show. That you think having a debt ceiling is a stupid idea speaks volumes about you. When is it going to be enough? How much debt and reckless and irresponsible government spending are you going to be comfortable with dumping on future generations?

    And again...your comment is NOT RELEVANT. Executive Orders do not apply to congress and congress is responsible for spending. Period. Rather than clamoring for a blank check or looking for ways to circumvent the Constitution you might be better served A-stop electing the same ass clowns to congress and B-stop beginning your budget negotiations with "We will not negotiate".

    Maybe its time for people to actually "live on ramen" for a while til they reign in their irresponsible spending habits.

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    Re: should the president enforce an exective order to pay us bills before oct 17

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    The debt ceiling debate happens about every year and a half. The idea is that there is some new baseline established...only THIS high...and no more, because too much debt is a BAD thing. When your 'debt' is 1-2 trillion, thats not a really big deal considering GNP and economic growth trends. When your debt is INCREASING 1-2 trillion every YEAR and your current debt is over 17 trillion and climbing, with interest obligations along at almost half a trillion annually, then debt ceiling hikes HAVE to start becoming more than some last minute dog and pony show. That you think having a debt ceiling is a stupid idea speaks volumes about you. When is it going to be enough? How much debt and reckless and irresponsible government spending are you going to be comfortable with dumping on future generations?
    Yeah...it does speak volumes about me. It means that I understand that if we default on our debt or don't raise the debt ceiling for appropriations already made we just end up paying higher debt costs. It means I believe any debate about debt should be during the time to set up budgets not when it's time to pay creditors. It's actually pretty sane and I daresay...FISCALLY RESPONSIBLE....

    And again...your comment is NOT RELEVANT. Executive Orders do not apply to congress and congress is responsible for spending. Period. Rather than clamoring for a blank check or looking for ways to circumvent the Constitution you might be better served A-stop electing the same ass clowns to congress and B-stop beginning your budget negotiations with "We will not negotiate".
    The debt ceiling doesn't spend a dime....it gives the Treasury authority to raise the money to pay for money already spent by Congress.

    Maybe its time for people to actually "live on ramen" for a while til they reign in their irresponsible spending habits.
    Or maybe someone that makes millions in capital gains could pay the same rate I pay for wages I've earned. There's a lot of things we can do to close deficits but sorry...there's nothing noble or Democratic by holding everyone in possible default status to ensure that we do things your way.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: should the president enforce an exective order to pay us bills before oct 17

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    No...they dont. Do you see anywhere in the 14th where it authorizes the Exec to enforce provisions of the 14th?
    here is what i see as instruction for the President:
    “I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.”
    point out the part where it says "except for the 14th amendment"
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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