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Thread: should the president enforce an exective order to pay us bills before oct 17

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    Re: should the president enforce an exective order to pay us bills before oct 17

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Yeah, except that Section 5 gives him zero authority to do anything.
    but does nothing to prevent him from exercising the power of the Executive
    including the issue of an XO to the Executive directed treasury
    "receive a just federal obligation - pay it"

    while he cannot create the debt (some precedent exceptions exist, such as the louisianna purchase) he can and should direct the treasury to satisfy all existing federal obligations and those that subsequently occur

    problem solved. congress obligates legislatively and the President honors his oath to defend the Constitution, including art 4 of the 14th amendment
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
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    Re: should the president enforce an exective order to pay us bills before oct 17

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    he could direct the treasury to pay all EXISTING just federal obligations. the ones the congress has already obligated (but not appropriated)
    just as did Harry asS Truman
    Thats pretty much what they are doing...right up until the 17th. Thats nothing new. They have been and are executing current FY13 funds. There is no authorization to spend FY14 dollars. Separation of powers and all...

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    Re: should the president enforce an exective order to pay us bills before oct 17

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Thats pretty much what they are doing...right up until the 17th. Thats nothing new. They have been and are executing current FY13 funds. There is no authorization to spend FY14 dollars. Separation of powers and all...
    has the congress passed legislation creating a just federal monetary obligation? then in EVERY such instance, the Executive has not a right but a sworn DUTY to see those obligations paid ... as is instructed by amendment 14 section 4 of the Constitution
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    Re: should the president enforce an exective order to pay us bills before oct 17

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    has the congress passed legislation creating a just federal monetary obligation? then in EVERY such instance, the Executive has not a right but a sworn DUTY to see those obligations paid ... as is instructed by amendment 14 section 4 of the Constitution
    Doesnt work that way. Not his job. And considering a good portion of the delay in the current federal appropriations lays at the feet of the President its easy to see why.

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    Re: should the president enforce an exective order to pay us bills before oct 17

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Doesnt work that way. Not his job. And considering a good portion of the delay in the current federal appropriations lays at the feet of the President its easy to see why.
    you are right to the extent that the congress should be responsible and appropriate funds for the legislative obligations they incurred
    however, the Executive has no control over what they do or do not do. (s)he does have the power and responsibility of the Executive to direct executive agencies to comply with the US Constitution, including amendment 14, section 4
    which is why i will fault him if he fails to perform that duty
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    Re: should the president enforce an exective order to pay us bills before oct 17

    Quote Originally Posted by plutonium View Post
    should the prez execute an executive order to pay bills, vets and gov workers already acrued by congress so the u.s. will not have an economic disaster in the world... and / can the supreme court help verify it first..
    As I understand it such an executive order would be illegal under the Anti-Deficiency Act.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

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    Re: should the president enforce an exective order to pay us bills before oct 17

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    you are right to the extent that the congress should be responsible and appropriate funds for the legislative obligations they incurred
    however, the Executive has no control over what they do or do not do. (s)he does have the power and responsibility of the Executive to direct executive agencies to comply with the US Constitution, including amendment 14, section 4
    which is why i will fault him if he fails to perform that duty
    Its simply not even a question. the executive CANNOT order the Legislative branch to do anything. Period. Your highlighted post quite clearly points out who has the power and authority in this regard. What you are proposing is the equivalent to you personally owing someone 50 bucks and me DEMANDING you pay them.

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    Re: should the president enforce an exective order to pay us bills before oct 17

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Its simply not even a question. the executive CANNOT order the Legislative branch to do anything. Period. Your highlighted post quite clearly points out who has the power and authority in this regard. What you are proposing is the equivalent to you personally owing someone 50 bucks and me DEMANDING you pay them.
    It's not an order to the Legislative branch...it's an order to the Treasury to sell Treasury Bills to finance US appropriations...made by Congress
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: should the president enforce an exective order to pay us bills before oct 17

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Its simply not even a question. the executive CANNOT order the Legislative branch to do anything. Period. Your highlighted post quite clearly points out who has the power and authority in this regard. What you are proposing is the equivalent to you personally owing someone 50 bucks and me DEMANDING you pay them.
    poor analogy
    here it is as is obligated

    congress effects legislation
    that legislation causes the federal government to incur a financial obligation
    if the congress does nothing further to satisfy such obligations [such as a an appropriation and/or extension of a debt ceiling]
    then the Executive is OBLIGATED by oath to defend amendment 14 of the Constitution and all other aspects of that document
    which should then cause him to direct the EXECUTIVE agencies to act to do so. in this case treasury being directed by XO to pay all existing federal obligations
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    Re: should the president enforce an exective order to pay us bills before oct 17

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    poor analogy
    here it is as is obligated

    congress effects legislation
    that legislation causes the federal government to incur a financial obligation
    if the congress does nothing further to satisfy such obligations [such as a an appropriation and/or extension of a debt ceiling]
    then the Executive is OBLIGATED by oath to defend amendment 14 of the Constitution and all other aspects of that document
    which should then cause him to direct the EXECUTIVE agencies to act to do so. in this case treasury being directed by XO to pay all existing federal obligations
    The simple fact is Executive Orders hold no sway with regard to congress. Congress is responsible for paying the bills. Thats fact. Wanting it to be different does not make it so, your own constitutional interpretation notwithstanding.

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