View Poll Results: Should the legally blind be allowed to carry guns in public?

Voters
62. You may not vote on this poll
  • yes

    23 37.10%
  • no

    30 48.39%
  • not sure

    9 14.52%
Page 9 of 11 FirstFirst ... 7891011 LastLast
Results 81 to 90 of 105

Thread: Should the legally blind be allowed to carry guns in public?

  1. #81
    Ideologically Impure
    Simon W. Moon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Fayettenam
    Last Seen
    12-08-17 @ 02:05 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    16,891
    Blog Entries
    5

    Re: Should the legally blind be allowed to carry guns in public?

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoVsMatrix View Post
    that's a silly reference to advocate for legally blind people running around with guns in public.
    If you were suddenly struck blind, would you still be as sane and responsible as you are now?
    I may be wrong.

  2. #82
    Ideologically Impure
    Simon W. Moon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Fayettenam
    Last Seen
    12-08-17 @ 02:05 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    16,891
    Blog Entries
    5

    Re: Should the legally blind be allowed to carry guns in public?

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoVsMatrix View Post
    It seems to be completely "normal" for everyone, that blind people should not drive cars, because it would be way too dangerous, to themselves, and more so to others.
    Ftr, argument by analogy is often only useful or compelling to people who already agree with you. Otherwise, pointing out the differences between the actual case and the analogous case is all that is needed to refute the argument by analogy.

    As far as I can tell, your argument is that a blind person cannot be trusted to behave responsibly enough to use a firearm when the risks of using the firearm outweigh the risks of not using one. Your argument seems to rest on the idea that a blind person would use a gun when it was not appropriate to do so. But, you're not making the necessary compelling argument for this premise. You seem to be asking us just to assume this with you.
    But in my anecdotal experience, blind people are not any more likely to be reckless than sighted people.
    A compelling case you may be able to make is presenting data which shows that blind people are more irresponsible or more reckless than the general population. Otherwise, it seems "completely normal" to assume that blind people understand the inherent risks of a firearm combined with poor visual acuity.
    Do you have some reason to think that blind people are confused about or unaware of the risks of being blind and having a gun?
    You seem to make the case that these risks are painfully obvious. Yet, you may also be saying that blind folks cannot see these risks.
    So finish up and explain about how it is that blind folks are not able to be trusted to behave responsibly.
    I may be wrong.

  3. #83
    User
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Last Seen
    03-02-15 @ 05:37 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    102

    Re: Should the legally blind be allowed to carry guns in public?

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post
    So finish up and explain about how it is that blind folks are not able to be trusted to behave responsibly.
    My argument is is that blind people who do behave responsibly, would not even consider to carry a gun in public. They are well aware that their physical impairment does not allow them to handle a gun in a controlled manner in an uncontrolled environment (which, an immediate threat situation would represent). They are able to distinguish the use of a sports gun for target shooting in a controlled and secured premise, for sports and recreation purposes, from the grave danger that a loaded gun, activated for use in public, puts bystanders into in general, and even more so if you do not see where you're pointing you're gun at.
    For the same reason they would not consider, as responsible individuals, to drive a car in public, they would not carry a gun in public either.
    The question if there's need for regulation to officially ban legally blind people from doing so (carrying guns in public), addresses the irresponsible gun owners, those who do not judge properly the danger they put others into.

  4. #84
    Ideologically Impure
    Simon W. Moon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Fayettenam
    Last Seen
    12-08-17 @ 02:05 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    16,891
    Blog Entries
    5

    Re: Should the legally blind be allowed to carry guns in public?

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoVsMatrix View Post
    They are well aware that their physical impairment does not allow them to handle a gun in a controlled manner in an uncontrolled environment (which, an immediate threat situation would represent).
    You are saying that there are no possible situations wherein a person with limited visual perception could use a firearm responsibly?

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoVsMatrix View Post
    The question if there's need for regulation to officially ban legally blind people from doing so (carrying guns in public), addresses the irresponsible gun owners, those who do not judge properly the danger they put others into.
    Which brings us back to the question of whether or not blind people are as responsible as sighted people. I won't deny that some blind people are irresponsible. But in my experience, so are some sighted people. Unless there is some reason to find that blind folks are not as responsible as sighted folks, they should enjoy the same rights as their sighted counterparts.
    I may be wrong.

  5. #85
    User
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Last Seen
    03-02-15 @ 05:37 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    102

    Re: Should the legally blind be allowed to carry guns in public?

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post
    Unless there is some reason to find that blind folks are not as responsible as sighted folks, they should enjoy the same rights as their sighted counterparts.
    So why again do blind people usually don't drive cars on public streets ?

  6. #86
    Ideologically Impure
    Simon W. Moon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Fayettenam
    Last Seen
    12-08-17 @ 02:05 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    16,891
    Blog Entries
    5

    Re: Should the legally blind be allowed to carry guns in public?

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoVsMatrix View Post
    So why again do blind people usually don't drive cars on public streets ?
    Ftr, argument by analogy is often only useful or compelling to people who already agree with you. Otherwise, pointing out the differences between the actual case and the analogous case is all that is needed to refute the argument by analogy.

    Do you need me to point out differences between driving and carrying a weapon? Or can you come up with some on your own?
    If you can come up with some,please do. That's all it takes to overcome argument by analogy.

    If you find carrying a weapon to be identical with driving, let me know, and I will offer up some differences for you.
    I may be wrong.

  7. #87
    User
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Last Seen
    03-02-15 @ 05:37 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    102

    Re: Should the legally blind be allowed to carry guns in public?

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post
    Do you need me to point out differences between driving and carrying a weapon? Or can you come up with some on your own?
    No need to be condescending, i assume both of us educated and intelligent enough to see the obvious differences between the 2 activities.

    For the argument's sake, the "overlapping" entities of both are the ones prevailing. In both cases, the visual impairment is an added risk when performing either activity. So in both cases, the activity should be banned in support of the overall safety of society, or should be allowed in either case, since it's deemed either not a high enough risk, or an unfair restriction of rights for the legally blind.
    And while for the activity of driving a car, banning this for the legally blind is - or at least seems to be - a shared concept, you think this safety concept should not be enrolled towards the handling of a loaded gun in public. I think it should be.

  8. #88
    Ideologically Impure
    Simon W. Moon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Fayettenam
    Last Seen
    12-08-17 @ 02:05 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    16,891
    Blog Entries
    5

    Re: Should the legally blind be allowed to carry guns in public?

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoVsMatrix View Post
    No need to be condescending, i assume both of us educated and intelligent enough to see the obvious differences between the 2 activities.
    What I wrote reads as more harsh than I intended. Sorry about that.

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoVsMatrix View Post
    In both cases, the visual impairment is an added risk when performing either activity.
    Being visually impaired does not increase the risk associated with carrying a weapon. Lack of visual perception only increases risks in regard to firing the weapon.
    It's obvious that the differences between carrying and discharging a weapon are substantive and substantial. Let me know if you disagree.

    Diminished visual perception does not increase the risk of shooting in all circumstances--e.g. when the muzzle in contact or nearly in contact with the target.
    For certain people who are legally blind [see definition upthread] the range where there is no extra risk extends beyond point blank range.
    Thus there exist legitimate and reasonable situations where someone with limited visual acuity could responsibly pull the trigger.

    There has been no reason presented to believe that people who are legally blind are more prone to err than people who are not legally blind when making the decision to fire or not.
    Without reason to believe that people who are blind are more prone to err in this decision, the case has not been made that there is an increased risk with blind people carrying a firearm.
    It stands that people who are legally blind are just as capable as sighted people of making the decision about whether or not shooting is appropriate in a given set of circumstances.

    Discharging a firearm is not an explicitly protected Constitutional right.
    There are already along list of laws and restrictions on discharging a firearm.
    These laws, rules and regulations already apply to legally blind folk.
    In civil matters, there already exist mechanisms for considering the extra liability / recklessness of discharging a weapon in circumstances where visual perception is limited.
    Further legislative action in regard to people who are blind carrying firearms is unnecessary.
    I may be wrong.

  9. #89
    Sage
    Dragonfly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    East Coast - USA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 07:28 AM
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    15,494

    Re: Should the legally blind be allowed to carry guns in public?

    I voted "no" based on these simple assumptions.

    If you're carrying a gun then the assumption is you'll use it if the "need" arises.

    If you can't tell what's on the other side of your target, you shouldn't be shooting at anyone.

    So yes - a legally blind person might be able to "see" their target if the target is with some defined distance, but they sure as hell can't tell what's just beyond that distance.

    Therefore - my vote is "no".

    I will say I'm not educated on the exact definition of "legally blind" and I would consider a case-by-case basis for some situations, but as a broad and open rule I'm comfortable with my vote.

  10. #90
    User
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Last Seen
    03-02-15 @ 05:37 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    102

    Re: Should the legally blind be allowed to carry guns in public?

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post
    Being visually impaired does not increase the risk associated with carrying a weapon. Lack of visual perception only increases risks in regard to firing the weapon.
    It's obvious that the differences between carrying and discharging a weapon are substantive and substantial. Let me know if you disagree.
    I agree with you on the argument, except for the part where you call the difference "substantive and substantial". The only logical reason to carry a gun in public is in order to use it in the event of an emergency. Carrying a gun in public implies the willingness to fire / discharge the gun if deemed necessary or appropriate. So while one can carry a gun without discharging it, one can not discharge a gun without carrying it. Therefore, one implies the other, and they cannot - imo - be separated distinctively.

    Diminished visual perception does not increase the risk of shooting in all circumstances--e.g. when the muzzle in contact or nearly in contact with the target.
    For certain people who are legally blind [see definition upthread] the range where there is no extra risk extends beyond point blank range.
    Thus there exist legitimate and reasonable situations where someone with limited visual acuity could responsibly pull the trigger.
    Not in all circumstances, ok. But, in my point of view, in the majority of circumstances, and this is exactly where regulations and laws come into play. No regulation can be perfect for each and every single case, therefore the best approach is to implement rules and regulations that cover the majority of situations, risks, etc. Does that mean some people are suffering from a regulation while they would not need to ? Yes, but that's just how it is, and what being part of a societal contract means.

    I am sure we can find people who - after drinking 3 beers and having a blood alcohol level above the legal limit - can still operate a car very safely, with no impairment on their skills compared to being sober. They might even have better reflexes and judgement in traffic situations than other, less well versed drivers when completely sober. But that does not give them an exception from the law, and they have to follow the same rules, or risk to be penalized for violating it, even if they have not hurt or injured anyone or anything.

    There has been no reason presented to believe that people who are legally blind are more prone to err than people who are not legally blind when making the decision to fire or not.
    I agree that being legally blind does not make someone more prone to err on the decision when to fire a gun or not. That is a complete different topic, if or if not a proper judgement is applied by any individual in such cases.
    Yet, when deciding that it IS appropriate to discharge the gun, i go back to my former argument, the risk for a legally blind person to have less control over where that shot goes is imminent, and justifies imo to ban them from carrying guns in public.

Page 9 of 11 FirstFirst ... 7891011 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •