View Poll Results: Should the Constitution be amended to eliminate the Senate?

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  • Yes

    1 1.28%
  • No

    58 74.36%
  • No, but serious modifications in the structure of Congress is needed

    16 20.51%
  • IDK/other

    3 3.85%
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Thread: Amend the Constitution to eliminate the Senate?

  1. #61
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    Re: Amend the Constitution to eliminate the Senate?

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Now you're just spewing platitudes in the justification of banning groups from having a voice in their authority. Do you know Kim?
    The difference between this post and mine that is that I cited specific examples of things that have actually happened that have been harmful to our country.

    Banks have tried to use their abundant political influence to outlaw or regulate credit unions specifically because their pro-consumerist business model endangers the future of their anti-consumerist practices within the financing industry.

    That is not a platitude, it is a fact, and by itself justifies my argument that lobbyists aren't worth the trouble their organizations bring. Information can be obtained through alternative means. As if I didn't have thirty years of other examples.
    If you notice something good in yourself, give credit to God, not to yourself, but be certain the evil you commit is always your own and yours to acknowledge.

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  2. #62
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    Re: Amend the Constitution to eliminate the Senate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    Information can be obtained through alternative means.
    No, it cannot. In order for all perspectives to be considered in a decision, the people must be free to address their government.

  3. #63
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    Re: Amend the Constitution to eliminate the Senate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    very true; voters will have to demand it. Unfortunately, most don't recognize that gerrymandering is the root of the problem.
    Whats the purpose of a district?

  4. #64
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    Re: Amend the Constitution to eliminate the Senate?

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    No, it cannot. In order for all perspectives to be considered in a decision, the people must be free to address their government.
    They must be given the opportunity to address their government, nothing more.
    If you notice something good in yourself, give credit to God, not to yourself, but be certain the evil you commit is always your own and yours to acknowledge.

    St. Benedict

  5. #65
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    Re: Amend the Constitution to eliminate the Senate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    They must be given the opportunity to address their government, nothing more.
    That's called lobbying.

  6. #66
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    Re: Amend the Constitution to eliminate the Senate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    No, the idea was the House would represent the people and the senate the states. I know the 17th amendment probably did away with the senate representing the state giving the people voting power of electing their senators instead of the state legislatures appointing them.But think of this with just a president and the house. Go back to 2009 when the presidency and the house were both Democratic, one party control, no checks on what that one party could do. The Democrats could have passed massive tax increases on all, passed health care on all, Gun control on all, they could have passed any and all of their agenda. With one party control, lets say they passed a bunch of far left extreme legislation which all became law.

    now in 2012 lets say the republicans took the house and the presidency, they didn't like what the democrats had just passed. So they repealed all tax increases and set a flat tax at 5% on all, they repealed all health care laws, all gun control laws, and anything else they didn't like and then proceeded with their own agenda, passing far right wing stuff. Then 4 year hence, the Democrats regained power and they inturn repeal everything the Republicans did and re-passed and enacted what ever they wanted. Now the nations goes through these wild swings, from one side to the other, no middle ground what so ever. No even keel.

    The senate brings about an equilibrium. With its filbuster to protect minority party rights it prevents these wild swings. Like the senate or not, it helps keeps things and laws on a more even keel, more in the middle than what having no senate would do. It is not the senate that is broke, it is the elected officials who reside there. Politics is the art of the possible, politics is about compromise, give and take, working with the other party for the good of the country. Sure each party can have their political agendas, but be willing to take a couple of steps back by giving something to the other party in order to take three steps forward by taking something from the other party.

    Head strong leaders in the senate of my way or the highway mental frame is why so much ruckus and gridlock is going on. think back to when Dole and Mitchell were the leaders, not that old go back to Dashle and Lott. Differences were worked out and government worked. Take away Reid and McConnell, replace them with maybe a Alexander and Manchin, or a Collins and Tester or someone who do not think the other party is all about evil.
    : And once again, an excellent well presented post!

  7. #67
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    Re: Amend the Constitution to eliminate the Senate?

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    That's called lobbying.
    No, it isn't.

    Lobbying requires a lot of money because you have to employ large organizations of analysts and negotiators to continually hammer away and acquire influence with blocs of Congress in order to obtain their loyalty whether your cause merits it or not. It's a full time job and involves no real virtue or concern for the public good, the sort of emotions "concerned citizens" are supposed to have when they address the government.

    If the government had a specific forum that was open for a set amount of time and otherwise regulated interaction between political agents and organizations, then instead of seeing middlemen we would see the people behind them come and give their take on the effects of a given policy on their industry. There would be no need for large organizations or money, because there would be no application for them. Not enough access in too little time.

    Inasmuch as it is a type of representation, lobbying is a way for organizations to compensate for their lack of merit (that is, their lack of usefulness to the republic and its people) with goods and services desirable to politicians.
    If you notice something good in yourself, give credit to God, not to yourself, but be certain the evil you commit is always your own and yours to acknowledge.

    St. Benedict

  8. #68
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    Re: Amend the Constitution to eliminate the Senate?

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    Whats the purpose of a district?
    to divide the state up into manageable portions which can each send representatives to the federal government.

    the intended purpose is not to create republican or democrat strongholds. using only population data to draw the districts will allow more competition, and the districts will be largely less secure.

  9. #69
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    Re: Amend the Constitution to eliminate the Senate?

    I think the senate is functioning a lot better than the house. You can't gerrymander a whole state the way you can a district. I think gerrymandering, the phenomenon of primary-ing out more moderate candidates, and tremendous private campaign funding are the biggest problems. Only the last is also a problem in senate.
    Liberté. Égalité. Fraternité.

  10. #70
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    Re: Amend the Constitution to eliminate the Senate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    one could always hope for a senate majority leader like Mike Mansfield.
    I didn't mention him as I figured most people on this site don't go back that far or remember who he was. Yes Mike Mansfield and Everett Dirksen, those two would make the senate work even today.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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