View Poll Results: Should the Constitution be amended to eliminate the Senate?

Voters
78. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    1 1.28%
  • No

    58 74.36%
  • No, but serious modifications in the structure of Congress is needed

    16 20.51%
  • IDK/other

    3 3.85%
Page 17 of 20 FirstFirst ... 71516171819 ... LastLast
Results 161 to 170 of 196

Thread: Amend the Constitution to eliminate the Senate?

  1. #161
    Sage

    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 09:48 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    89,925

    Re: Amend the Constitution to eliminate the Senate?

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Why should I provide you any evidence, you're the proponent of change. Prove it's needed.
    Because you took up for somebody else here in 144 and claimed they had provided evidence - by your own claim evidence you considered pretty good ..... and yet a search through the posts produced NO SUCH EVIDENCE.

    that is why you should provide it as you made a claim and then are impotent to substantiate it.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  2. #162
    Tavern Bartender
    Constitutionalist
    American's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Virginia
    Last Seen
    Today @ 10:49 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    76,323

    Re: Amend the Constitution to eliminate the Senate?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Because you took up for somebody else here in 144 and claimed they had provided evidence - by your own claim evidence you considered pretty good ..... and yet a search through the posts produced NO SUCH EVIDENCE.

    that is why you should provide it as you made a claim and then are impotent to substantiate it.
    I just looked this stuff up using Google, and it is amazingly easy. It's almost as easy as posting useless **** on a forum, so I think you can handle it. You know it's not required by rule, but most people around here expect you to at least try to educate yourself a little. Please do that, and then get back to us. Just so no one says I'm without mercy, here's a start.

    FEDERALIST No. 62 | Left Justified
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

  3. #163
    Sage

    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 09:48 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    89,925

    Re: Amend the Constitution to eliminate the Senate?

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    I just looked this stuff up using Google, and it is amazingly easy. It's almost as easy as posting useless **** on a forum, so I think you can handle it. You know it's not required by rule, but most people around here expect you to at least try to educate yourself a little. Please do that, and then get back to us. Just so no one says I'm without mercy, here's a start.

    FEDERALIST No. 62 | Left Justified
    Why would you post this so called "evidence" when it is actually not evidence of any kind which was asked for?

    Not only are you moving the goal posts, you are trying to move them to a different arena in a different city and then playing a different sport altogether there.

    Again - you chimed in when another poster was challenged to present evidence that they were right about the majority using the vote to take away the rights of the minority. So where is that evidence askd for in my post #140 and then you posted directlyafter in 144?
    again - here was my challenge which so far has gone unanswered


    then please answer my question about when in US history the majority voted to take away rights from the minority?


    Your Federalist Paper stuff fails to answer that.
    Last edited by haymarket; 10-16-13 at 04:44 PM.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  4. #164
    Tavern Bartender
    Constitutionalist
    American's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Virginia
    Last Seen
    Today @ 10:49 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    76,323

    Re: Amend the Constitution to eliminate the Senate?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Why would you post this so called "evidence" when it is actually not evidence of any kind which was asked for?

    Not only are you moving the goal posts, you are trying to move them to a different arena in a different city and then playing a different sport altogether there.

    Again - you chimed in when another poster was challenged to present evidence that they were right about the majority using the vote to take away the rights of the minority. So where is that evidence askd for in my post #140 and then you posted directlyafter in 144?
    again - here was my challenge which so far has gone unanswered


    then please answer my question about when in US history the majority voted to take away rights from the minority?


    Your Federalist Paper stuff fails to answer that.
    Sounds like a personal problem.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

  5. #165
    Relentless Thinking Fury
    ChezC3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Chicago
    Last Seen
    Today @ 07:14 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    9,141

    Re: Amend the Constitution to eliminate the Senate?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    as long as the people elect their senators, america is closer to democracy, and that is something the founders did not want, ....becuase democracy is full of faction/special interest.......which is destroying america
    Thinking on this, it seems outside of the obvious, that allowing for direct elections of Senators actually decreased public participation in the electoral process. It made State leg obsolete in way and severed the connection (and the check and balance)of the US Senator from the State they were sent to Washington to represent. Which in turn made interest in State legislative elections less important and/or interesting in the eyes of many voters.

    Bringing back State Leg appointed Senators would or should rather bring back a more keen interest in State legislator elections as whom they would appoint to the Senate would probably be one of the most important duties they'd have while in office. At least for the time being until a more proper balance of power is restored to the States.

  6. #166
    Mixed Government advocate
    Master PO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    93,000,000 miles from Earth where its very Hot
    Last Seen
    11-30-17 @ 01:52 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    31,331

    Re: Amend the Constitution to eliminate the Senate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    Although not always applied perfectly, our constitution has many protections for the rights of minorities. We also have courts empowered to insure those constitutional protections for minorities are applied.

    ..James Madison states, that the senate is the first bulwark against tyranny of the majority, it is the court that is the second bulwark,...that first bulwark has been removed with the 17th.

    and the court, which is supposed to be non partisan, is...of coarse partisan.

  7. #167
    Mixed Government advocate
    Master PO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    93,000,000 miles from Earth where its very Hot
    Last Seen
    11-30-17 @ 01:52 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    31,331

    Re: Amend the Constitution to eliminate the Senate?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChezC3 View Post
    Thinking on this, it seems outside of the obvious, that allowing for direct elections of Senators actually decreased public participation in the electoral process. It made State leg obsolete in way and severed the connection (and the check and balance)of the US Senator from the State they were sent to Washington to represent. Which in turn made interest in State legislative elections less important and/or interesting in the eyes of many voters.

    Bringing back State Leg appointed Senators would or should rather bring back a more keen interest in State legislator elections as whom they would appoint to the Senate would probably be one of the most important duties they'd have while in office. At least for the time being until a more proper balance of power is restored to the States.

    yes, by electing your state legislature, the people are making an indirect vote for their senators, and giving states power to keep the federal government in check, so they cannot place mandates on states, and prevent majority rule.

  8. #168
    Mixed Government advocate
    Master PO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    93,000,000 miles from Earth where its very Hot
    Last Seen
    11-30-17 @ 01:52 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    31,331

    Re: Amend the Constitution to eliminate the Senate?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post

    then please answer my question about when in US history the majority voted to take away rights from the minority?


    are you asking on a state or federal level ..........or both?

  9. #169
    Relentless Thinking Fury
    ChezC3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Chicago
    Last Seen
    Today @ 07:14 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    9,141

    Re: Amend the Constitution to eliminate the Senate?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    yes, by electing your state legislature, the people are making an indirect vote for their senators, and giving states power to keep the federal government in check, so they cannot place mandates on states, and prevent majority rule.
    I would say to get this ball rolling we would have to find a State which is most susceptible to this line of reasoning and push forth a State legislative agenda which would challenge and find creative ways to circumvent the 17th Amendment. Obviously the troubles which brought about the reform in the first place would have to be addressed, the bribery, a default measure for vacant seats, et al. But it is an idea which should be seriously considered and a serious attempt at a counter-reformation should be made.

  10. #170
    Mixed Government advocate
    Master PO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    93,000,000 miles from Earth where its very Hot
    Last Seen
    11-30-17 @ 01:52 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    31,331

    Re: Amend the Constitution to eliminate the Senate?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChezC3 View Post
    I would say to get this ball rolling we would have to find a State which is most susceptible to this line of reasoning and push forth a State legislative agenda which would challenge and find creative ways to circumvent the 17th Amendment. Obviously the troubles which brought about the reform in the first place would have to be addressed, the bribery, a default measure for vacant seats, et al. But it is an idea which should be seriously considered and a serious attempt at a counter-reformation should be made.
    Madison states it is impossible to remove every bit of faction in government, ,but it is possible to limit it, by spreading out powers of government, and this was done with republican government before the 17th.

    by having the 17th, this moves us closer to democracy and puts power into one set of hands, were it can be tyrannical, .................Madison states its very factious

    "The other point of difference is, the greater number of citizens and extent of territory which may be brought within the compass of republican than of democratic government; and it is this circumstance principally which renders factious combinations less to be dreaded in the former than in the latter-- federalist 10

    in federalist 10 you see, Madison chooses republican government, ....... not democratic government......becuase it has less faction/special interest

Page 17 of 20 FirstFirst ... 71516171819 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •