View Poll Results: Should the Constitution be amended to eliminate the Senate?

Voters
78. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    1 1.28%
  • No

    58 74.36%
  • No, but serious modifications in the structure of Congress is needed

    16 20.51%
  • IDK/other

    3 3.85%
Page 13 of 20 FirstFirst ... 31112131415 ... LastLast
Results 121 to 130 of 196

Thread: Amend the Constitution to eliminate the Senate?

  1. #121
    Global Moderator
    The Truth is out there.
    Kal'Stang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Bonners Ferry ID USA
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    32,857
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Amend the Constitution to eliminate the Senate?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Then it should be very simple for you to present it. Words mean something. Definitions mean something. One of the first things done in actual debate is to clarify the definitions of the terms being used so both sides are on the same page.

    Why are you unable to do this simply thing?
    Why are you unable to address what I stated without resorting to your usual semantical debate tactics? If words and definitions mean something then you should have no problem addressing what I stated as the words and definitions are the same for both you and me.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

  2. #122
    Global Moderator
    The Truth is out there.
    Kal'Stang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Bonners Ferry ID USA
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    32,857
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Amend the Constitution to eliminate the Senate?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    What is the justification for having a system where a minority of people can stifle the will of a much larger majority in matters within the Constitution?
    What is the justification for having a system where the majority of people can stifle the minority in matters within the Constitution?
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

  3. #123
    Mixed Government advocate
    Master PO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    93,000,000 miles from Earth where its very Hot
    Last Seen
    11-30-17 @ 01:52 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    31,331

    Re: Amend the Constitution to eliminate the Senate?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChezC3 View Post
    I voted no, but after thinking on this considerably I do believe direct elections of Senators should end and their position be determined by State Legislatures. I think if we get back to setting things up the way things were founded we've a better shot of returning closer to the spirit and intent of the Founders.
    as long as the people elect their senators, america is closer to democracy, and that is something the founders did not want, ....becuase democracy is full of faction/special interest.......which is destroying america

  4. #124
    Sage

    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:49 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    89,648

    Re: Amend the Constitution to eliminate the Senate?

    Quote Originally Posted by francois60 View Post
    I don't think federalism is an outdated concept though. A united Europe will also have a federalist structure and there are other such republics elsewhere in the world.



    Your point is valid, but we're not quite there yet. There is still too much difference in culture between states to make such a nation workable. When Texans aren't too different from New Yorkers we can revisit this. Heck, first we need to resolve the differences between just Vermont and New Hampshire, Vermont being maybe the most hardcore liberal state in the union and New Hampshire having no income or sales taxes and having a strong libertarian streak.



    States still have interests that conflict though, and the people tend to be aware of it. The farm states have their interests, the coal states have their interests.... Once larger states like california start trying to regulate what happens in other states, sectionalism can come back with a vengeance. Like I said, we're not quite there yet. Heck, Canada isn't quite there yet.
    I agree that there still are some sectional differences in culture that are evident is some states. You mentioned Texas and I suspect that is the most obvious and blatant example and it seems to be so by purpose, by intention and by a desire to intentionally rpeserve that and to hell with assimilation into the larger culture. I do suspect they are the extreme example that situation.

    I further suspect that most of the country is far alike than it is different. We are first and foremost Americans.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  5. #125
    Mixed Government advocate
    Master PO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    93,000,000 miles from Earth where its very Hot
    Last Seen
    11-30-17 @ 01:52 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    31,331

    Re: Amend the Constitution to eliminate the Senate?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Why do some people on the right refer to normal political voting and the process of representative democracy as mob rule?
    simple, becuase the founders divided power in congress, between the states and the people, so that neither one, could be tyrannical , ..so power is divided.

    by putting congress in only the hands of the people with the 17th, this leads to mob rule, or majority rule.

    The accumulation of all powers, legislative, executive, and judiciary, in the same hands, whether of one, a few, or many, and whether hereditary, selfappointed, or elective, may justly be pronounced the very definition of tyranny-- federalist 47

  6. #126
    Mixed Government advocate
    Master PO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    93,000,000 miles from Earth where its very Hot
    Last Seen
    11-30-17 @ 01:52 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    31,331

    Re: Amend the Constitution to eliminate the Senate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    I did because that is exactly what he is wanting. He wants a state which has far more people to have more power than a state with less people instead of the states being on equal footing when being represented. His claim of Wyoming having 70% more power than California ignores the fact that the 70% "increase in power" in actuality just puts Wyoming on direct equal footing with California, preventing California from dictating what happens in Wyoming. Two VERY different states with VERY different cultures and needs and wants.

    How can you have a "representative democracy" when the reps from your state have less power than some other state that just happens to have more people? The word "representative" is about representing what the people in their particular state needs/wants. This cannot be done if you have some other states representative over riding your states representative just because they have more people. That would make it to where California is representing Wyoming also.

    CA has 53 representatives in the house

    WY has 1 representative in the house

  7. #127
    Sage

    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:49 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    89,648

    Re: Amend the Constitution to eliminate the Senate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    There's your problem. We don't have a system where some peoples votes are weighted more heavilly than others in national matters. They are all equal.
    So tell me about the vote for electors for President of the United States and why they are not all equal in the power they wield?

    http://www.dailyherald.com/article/2...uss/711059952/

    a small part of the article

    Presidential elections are occasions for frustration in Illinois: We get ignored by the campaigns, the winner of our state gets all 20 of our electoral votes, no matter how close the popular vote, and we have far less clout in the Electoral College than citizens from much smaller states. It's true. The seven smallest states in population have more electoral votes than Illinois, even though they have just 41 percent as many residents. Alaska, Delaware, Montana, the Dakotas, Vermont and Wyoming have just 5.27 million people according to the 2010 census, compared to our 12.8 million. Yet those states have 21 electoral votes. The 12 least populous states also have fewer people than Illinois (11.9 million), but have more than twice as many electoral votes (41).

    In other words, there is one electoral vote per 251,129 residents of the seven smallest states, compared to one electoral vote per 641,531 Illinoisans. People from those small states have more than 2.5 times the clout per resident in electing the president. Wyoming has 3.4 times has much clout per resident as Illinois.
    Who gets to be President of the USA is most certainly a national matter - to use your qualifier. Why should a voter in Wyoming have three and a half times the impact of a voter in a different state?
    Last edited by haymarket; 10-16-13 at 02:13 PM.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  8. #128
    Mixed Government advocate
    Master PO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    93,000,000 miles from Earth where its very Hot
    Last Seen
    11-30-17 @ 01:52 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    31,331

    Re: Amend the Constitution to eliminate the Senate?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    People exercising their voting rights is NOT mob rule.
    if you act as a majority ,to take away rights of the minority it is.........and that is what happens every time, when you have majority rule.

  9. #129
    Sage

    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:49 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    89,648

    Re: Amend the Constitution to eliminate the Senate?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    simple, becuase the founders divided power in congress, between the states and the people, so that neither one, could be tyrannical , ..so power is divided.

    by putting congress in only the hands of the people with the 17th, this leads to mob rule, or majority rule.

    The accumulation of all powers, legislative, executive, and judiciary, in the same hands, whether of one, a few, or many, and whether hereditary, selfappointed, or elective, may justly be pronounced the very definition of tyranny-- federalist 47
    MOB RULE is a right wing pejorative for majority rule as used in this thread. It is intended to be insulting as well as blatantly false.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  10. #130
    Sage

    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:49 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    89,648

    Re: Amend the Constitution to eliminate the Senate?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    if you act as a majority ,to take away rights of the minority it is.........and that is what happens every time, when you have majority rule.
    When did this happen in the USA?
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

Page 13 of 20 FirstFirst ... 31112131415 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •