View Poll Results: Should the Constitution be amended to eliminate the Senate?

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  • Yes

    1 1.28%
  • No

    58 74.36%
  • No, but serious modifications in the structure of Congress is needed

    16 20.51%
  • IDK/other

    3 3.85%
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Thread: Amend the Constitution to eliminate the Senate?

  1. #101
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    Re: Amend the Constitution to eliminate the Senate?

    Quote Originally Posted by francois60 View Post
    In terms of the federal government, yes. We are a federation of states. The compromise that created the bicameral Congress is known as the Great Compromise, and it was a condition of smaller states joining the union. There is no expiration date.
    Make no mistake, haymarket knows this very well.......he just doesn't like it. And he's prepared to do anything to change it.
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  2. #102
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    Re: Amend the Constitution to eliminate the Senate?

    That's fine, but he has to understand that short of violence, the only way that happens is if all 50 states agree.

  3. #103
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    Re: Amend the Constitution to eliminate the Senate?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    So you do NOT believe in the principle of one person one vote? You believe that some votes should be weighted with far more power than other votes are given? You believe that a person should be penalized with a reduction in the impact of their vote simply because of where they happen to live?
    When it comes to voting in our representitives, I absolutely do believe in one person one vote with equal weight to the votes. When it comes to enacting laws, hell no. Mob rule always leads to someone getting oppressed and stripped of their rights. Current day example would be SSM. There is no valid reason to deny homosexuals marrying each other.
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  4. #104
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    Re: Amend the Constitution to eliminate the Senate?

    Quote Originally Posted by francois60 View Post
    In terms of the federal government, yes. We are a federation of states. The compromise that created the bicameral Congress is known as the Great Compromise, and it was a condition of smaller states joining the union. There is no expiration date.
    I agree with your legal interpretation. But we as a nation - if indeed we aspire to be one nation - badly need to advance beyond the 18th century and the sensibilities of that day.

    Once upon a time a person considered themselves as a Virginian, or a Kentuckian, or a Massachusetts man or a New Hampshire man. They lived their lives as that and there was very strong state identity. That day is long gone. Today a person is born in Michigan, moves to Ohio as a child and gets some of their education there, moves to Mississippi and finishes high school there, goes to UCLA in California as an undergrad, does an advanced degree in Massachusetts, gets married to a girl from New Mexico and they live in Texas, Arizona and Washington state before retiring forty years later and moving to Florida.

    That is life for Americans in the 21st century. The day of state identity is long past. The law needs to badly catch up with that reality we all live with.
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  5. #105
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    Re: Amend the Constitution to eliminate the Senate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    When it comes to voting in our representitives, I absolutely do believe in one person one vote with equal weight to the votes. When it comes to enacting laws, hell no. Mob rule always leads to someone getting oppressed and stripped of their rights. Current day example would be SSM. There is no valid reason to deny homosexuals marrying each other.
    People exercising their voting rights is NOT mob rule.
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  6. #106
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    Re: Amend the Constitution to eliminate the Senate?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    People exercising their voting rights is NOT mob rule.
    It is when the majority suppresses the minority.
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    Re: Amend the Constitution to eliminate the Senate?

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    Having two branches of Congress increasingly brings the government to a gridlock. The Senate was created when the federal government was going to have virtually no power for which each state was a quasi-independent country joining with others primarily for military defense. But that all ended with the Civil War and is ancient history.

    Why should the people and state of Wyoming have 7000% more political power than a Californian and California? Wyoming doesn't contribute 7000% more to the good of the nation. Shouldn't it be one-person-one-vote, rather than 1 vote for a California and 70 votes for a someone who votes in Wyoming? This also leads to massive out-of-state-money being thrown into low population states. The state of Wyoming and many other states have a total population that is only a fraction of just a major American city. I see no justification for that anymore.

    I think the Constitution should be amended to eliminate the Senate. This is not limited to the current Congressional mess at all. Rather, it is a growing problem overall and a serious question of the fairness of democracy/republic form of government.

    Your opinion?
    They states are equal in the Senate, and Distributively Represented in the House. That is why it takes both. Each state gets an equal say, but each state also gets a proportionate say.
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  8. #108
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    Re: Amend the Constitution to eliminate the Senate?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    I agree with your legal interpretation. But we as a nation - if indeed we aspire to be one nation - badly need to advance beyond the 18th century and the sensibilities of that day.

    Once upon a time a person considered themselves as a Virginian, or a Kentuckian, or a Massachusetts man or a New Hampshire man. They lived their lives as that and there was very strong state identity. That day is long gone. Today a person is born in Michigan, moves to Ohio as a child and gets some of their education there, moves to Mississippi and finishes high school there, goes to UCLA in California as an undergrad, does an advanced degree in Massachusetts, gets married to a girl from New Mexico and they live in Texas, Arizona and Washington state before retiring forty years later and moving to Florida.

    That is life for Americans in the 21st century. The day of state identity is long past. The law needs to badly catch up with that reality we all live with.
    And in every single one of your examples there are different cultures that the person has to learn about, different circumstances that the person will have to deal with. The reasons for having States instead of "One Nation" is just as valid today as it was 200 years ago. What is true in California is not necessarily true in Wyoming. And visa versa.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

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  9. #109
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    Re: Amend the Constitution to eliminate the Senate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    It is when the majority suppresses the minority.
    Suppresses? I have no idea what you mean by that. Can you explain it please?
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  10. #110
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    Re: Amend the Constitution to eliminate the Senate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    And in every single one of your examples there are different cultures that the person has to learn about, different circumstances that the person will have to deal with. The reasons for having States instead of "One Nation" is just as valid today as it was 200 years ago. What is true in California is not necessarily true in Wyoming. And visa versa.
    To take our argument to the next level, so are cities different and so are towns and so are the various neighborhoods withing them. So what? Why should the weighted power of a vote or a states vote be attached to those assumed differences?

    What is considered as 'true' in the Mission district of San fransisco is not 'true' in the Beacon Hill section of Massachusetts and is probably different than the Black Bottom on the east side of Detroit? So what? Why should voting power be weighted significantly because of those differences?

    I see no argument for that simple reality?
    Why is it just as valid today as it was 200 years ago? I just gave you a scenario which showed exactly why it is no longer the case.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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