View Poll Results: Abolish Traffic Enforcement Cameras

Voters
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  • All cameras should be abolished

    50 49.50%
  • Abolish red light cameras only

    5 4.95%
  • Abolish speeding cameras only

    7 6.93%
  • Abolish other types of cameras only (specify)

    0 0%
  • Allow all cameras to remain in use

    28 27.72%
  • Other (specify)

    11 10.89%
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Thread: Abolish Traffic Enforcement Cameras

  1. #321
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    Re: Abolish Traffic Enforcement Cameras

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    No, you are wrong. Of itself, running a redlight endangers no one. Running a redlight is dangerous when it endangers people. The videos you present no more prove your point than if I put of videos of criminals who are breathing, claiming it proves that breathing endangers people.

    Not one accident in those videos would have been avoided by a redlight camera. Zero. Some even show vehicles plowing into the back of other vehicles, having nothing to do with traffic lights whatsoever.

    But, of course, you added the word "egregious" and then tried to attach that word to me. In short, your message lacks any intellectual integrity. I gave my own specific example of knowing running a redlight and commonly doing so as most people around here do.

    Of THE main intersection this city, it is impossible for a person who has just entered the intersection for a left turn (which is 90% of the traffic from that direction) to make it fully thru the light before it turns red unless they are driving like a GT1 race car.

    Of itself, running a redlight or stop sign endangers no one, nor does speeding, nor does firing a gun, nor does anything else that isn't done in a manner to endanger someone, whether legal or not. What is legal or not does not in any manner define what does and does not endanger people.

    But I know why you now are raging and flaming me. Because you don't want to answer the question of how can anyone avoid with certainty avoid being in an intersection when a light turns red given they can not control cars ahead of them and it illegal to just stop at a green light to wait for it to cycle so you are then the first car to go.

    You don't have an answer, do you? Nor to any of the other false charges by robo-computer cameras that don't exist with live police officers.
    Running a red light is highly dangerous, but much less so if you know for sure that no one is going to enter the intersection when you do.

    As demonstrated by that video, some persons either didn't notice the red, or knowingly ignored it - and as a result, they hit cars entering the intersection on a green. Or missing them slightly, in a few cases.


    Now, the example you give, of "running" a red light by being in the intersection when it turns red....So far as I know, the law in Pennsylvania is that if you're in the intersection when the light turns red, you are NOT running a red light. They have thick white lines denoting the edges of the intersection, and as I understand it, if you're behind one of those when the light turns red, you shouldn't keep going or you've technically run a red light.
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  2. #322
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    Re: Abolish Traffic Enforcement Cameras

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocketman View Post
    I bought an Escort Redline, haven't had a ticket in 3 years now.

    So by implication you have no desire to follow the rules of the load. Now we know why you are so dead set against the camera's.

    Well.....time to get off the wahhhhhhhhambulance. You reap what you sow.

  3. #323
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    Re: Abolish Traffic Enforcement Cameras

    Quote Originally Posted by year2late View Post
    So by implication you have no desire to follow the rules of the load. Now we know why you are so dead set against the camera's.

    Well.....time to get off the wahhhhhhhhambulance. You reap what you sow.
    Not all people live to be submissive to the rules as their purpose and defining feature of their lives. Others, such as you indicate is your view in your messages, "desire to follow the rules." Not in my life has my desires been about following rules. I find it hard to believe anyone would put "desire" in the context of "following the rules." But to each his/her own I suppose.

    The best way to never break any rules is to not exist at all, isn't it? Indeed, the perfect existence is non-existence.

    I used to wonder why there is so little freedom in the world. I know the answer. Most people are terrified of freedom and terrified of being an adult. They cry for their momma like a child all their lives. Since there is no mommy and daddy to care for and protect them, they make government their surrogate parents.
    Last edited by joko104; 10-15-13 at 08:30 PM.

  4. #324
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    Re: Abolish Traffic Enforcement Cameras

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    No, you are wrong. Of itself, running a redlight endangers no one. Running a redlight is dangerous when it endangers people. The videos you present no more prove your point than if I put of videos of criminals who are breathing, claiming it proves that breathing endangers people.

    Not one accident in those videos would have been avoided by a redlight camera. Zero. Some even show vehicles plowing into the back of other vehicles, having nothing to do with traffic lights whatsoever.

    But, of course, you added the word "egregious" and then tried to attach that word to me. In short, your message lacks any intellectual integrity. I gave my own specific example of knowing running a redlight and commonly doing so as most people around here do.

    Of THE main intersection this city, it is impossible for a person who has just entered the intersection for a left turn (which is 90% of the traffic from that direction) to make it fully thru the light before it turns red unless they are driving like a GT1 race car.

    Of itself, running a redlight or stop sign endangers no one, nor does speeding, nor does firing a gun, nor does anything else that isn't done in a manner to endanger someone, whether legal or not. What is legal or not does not in any manner define what does and does not endanger people.

    But I know why you now are raging and flaming me. Because you don't want to answer the question of how can anyone avoid with certainty avoid being in an intersection when a light turns red given they can not control cars ahead of them and it illegal to just stop at a green light to wait for it to cycle so you are then the first car to go.

    You don't have an answer, do you? Nor to any of the other false charges by robo-computer cameras that don't exist with live police officers.
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  5. #325
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    Re: Abolish Traffic Enforcement Cameras

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    Not all people live to be submissive to the rules as their purpose and defining feature of their lives. Others, such as you indicate is your view in your messages, "desire to follow the rules." Not in my life has my desires been about following rules. I find it hard to believe anyone would put "desire" in the context of "following the rules." But to each his/her own I suppose.

    The best way to never break any rules is to not exist at all, isn't it? Indeed, the perfect existence is non-existence.
    Good Lord.

    You get a license to drive by showing you have knowledge of the rules and you take a behind the wheel test to show your ability to follow the rules. If you do not intend to follow the rules of the road, why even get a license?

    Luckily most people follow the rules of the road so - it is not utter chaos out there. But those that do cause a lot of physical and property damage.

    I myself have had 3 major accidents (cars severely damaged and totaled - with bodily injury) All happened because of people not following basic rules of the road/driving rules).

    What in the hell does following rules of the road have to do with being submissive?
    Last edited by year2late; 10-15-13 at 09:09 PM.

  6. #326
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    Re: Abolish Traffic Enforcement Cameras

    Quote Originally Posted by Phys251 View Post
    I consider that as a concession that you have no response to it is impossible for anyone to assuredly and legally avoid a redlight while driving.

  7. #327
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    Re: Abolish Traffic Enforcement Cameras

    Quote Originally Posted by year2late View Post
    Good Lord.

    You get a license to drive by showing you have knowledge of the rules and you take a behind the wheel test to show your ability to follow the rules. If you do not intend to follow the rules of the road, why even get a license?

    Luckily most people follow the rules of the road so - it is not utter chaos out there. But those that do cause a lot of physical and property damage.

    I myself have had 3 major accidents (cars severely damaged and totaled - with bodily injury) All happened because of people not following basic rules of the road/driving rules).

    What in the hell does following rules of the road have to do with being submissive?
    By definition, following rules solely for the sake of following the rules is being "submissive."

    I often write how much I despise slogans, that they are for the mentally lazy and for people with little ability of independent thought.

    Driving in a way clearly dangerous to others is clearly dangerous to others. "Rules of the road" are only relevant to safety when they are relevant to safety.

    Do you set your parking brake and turn you wheels the correct direction towards the curb when you park? If not, OMG! You are endangering everyone! But in fact no your are not, not unless does so endangers others. Following rules can endanger people. For example, if all cars are going 75 to 80, but one person doing 45 on a 70 mph Interstate, only one driver is driving "following the rules." But that is the dangerous one.

    I am objection to two things:

    1. Inhuman machine-cops that can prosecute civil or criminal cases against humans. I do not approve of machines and computers become masters of the human race - generally or individually. The dangers of allow such technology at that degree of power in the law enforcement, civil justice and criminal justice system are massive and dehumanize such systems and all of us.

    2. The premise that rules of government are as rules of some god and for which ethics and even what defines reality is singularly within those rules (ie "laws.")

    Rules did not help me in all of my childhood and youth. Rules of government hurt me. Terribly. More than people could grasp. Rules, government, never, once helped or protected me. They sent me to and trapped me in a true living hell on earth. Cops and laws didn't help, protect or serve me for the next 14 years either. Rather they were only dangers and to be avoided, patronized, hidden from.

    A person should be free. Within that freedom is a restraint to not seriously endanger or harm others. I do not make a connection between that standard and "government rules" nor "social rules" - though I put more stock in social rules in terms of the functioning of society.

    Most people are conditioned from birth with a vast collection of slogans and platitudes. Including about government, rules and laws. I wasn't. Therefore, they are not automatic truisms to me.

    What is dangerous to others is dangerous to others. What isn't, isn't. Not coming to a 100% stop at a flat intersection in the middle of nowhere with no car in sight endangers no one. A person's rear bump 1 foot still in the intersection endangers no one. "Running" a redlight of itself endangers no one. Only dangerously running a redlight does. That is SO obvious to me it seems absurd to dispute it.

    The specific reasons I gave against robo-computer-light-cops in terms of accuracy, roadrage pranks, fairness and safety has been responded to by no one. Rather, just slogans, platitudes and ragings about the rules, law and government to try to divert from reality.

  8. #328
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    Re: Abolish Traffic Enforcement Cameras

    Quote Originally Posted by year2late View Post
    So by implication you have no desire to follow the rules of the load. Now we know why you are so dead set against the camera's.

    Well.....time to get off the wahhhhhhhhambulance. You reap what you sow.
    if you drive in the left lane and aren't passing anyone you aren't following the rules of the ROAD not Load

  9. #329
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    Re: Abolish Traffic Enforcement Cameras

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    By definition, following rules solely for the sake of following the rules is being "submissive."

    I often write how much I despise slogans, that they are for the mentally lazy and for people with little ability of independent thought.

    Driving in a way clearly dangerous to others is clearly dangerous to others. "Rules of the road" are only relevant to safety when they are relevant to safety.

    Do you set your parking brake and turn you wheels the correct direction towards the curb when you park? If not, OMG! You are endangering everyone! But in fact no your are not, not unless does so endangers others. Following rules can endanger people. For example, if all cars are going 75 to 80, but one person doing 45 on a 70 mph Interstate, only one driver is driving "following the rules." But that is the dangerous one.

    I am objection to two things:

    1. Inhuman machine-cops that can prosecute civil or criminal cases against humans. I do not approve of machines and computers become masters of the human race - generally or individually. The dangers of allow such technology at that degree of power in the law enforcement, civil justice and criminal justice system are massive and dehumanize such systems and all of us.

    2. The premise that rules of government are as rules of some god and for which ethics and even what defines reality is singularly within those rules (ie "laws.")

    Rules did not help me in all of my childhood and youth. Rules of government hurt me. Terribly. More than people could grasp. Rules, government, never, once helped or protected me. They sent me to and trapped me in a true living hell on earth. Cops and laws didn't help, protect or serve me for the next 14 years either. Rather they were only dangers and to be avoided, patronized, hidden from.

    A person should be free. Within that freedom is a restraint to not seriously endanger or harm others. I do not make a connection between that standard and "government rules" nor "social rules" - though I put more stock in social rules in terms of the functioning of society.

    Most people are conditioned from birth with a vast collection of slogans and platitudes. Including about government, rules and laws. I wasn't. Therefore, they are not automatic truisms to me.

    What is dangerous to others is dangerous to others. What isn't, isn't. Not coming to a 100% stop at a flat intersection in the middle of nowhere with no car in sight endangers no one. A person's rear bump 1 foot still in the intersection endangers no one. "Running" a redlight of itself endangers no one. Only dangerously running a redlight does. That is SO obvious to me it seems absurd to dispute it.

    The specific reasons I gave against robo-computer-light-cops in terms of accuracy, roadrage pranks, fairness and safety has been responded to by no one. Rather, just slogans, platitudes and ragings about the rules, law and government to try to divert from reality.
    You follow traffic rules because it is the safe thing to do.

  10. #330
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    Re: Abolish Traffic Enforcement Cameras

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocketman View Post
    I bought an Escort Redline, haven't had a ticket in 3 years now.

    For the car my wife got me, in addition to a total cosmetic redo and upgrade, she is adding front and rear laser jammers (legal), state of the art radar detectors (legal), redlight/speeding cameras early warning system (legal) and radar defeating paint to the critical areas of the frontal area which reduces radar's range from 50 to 75%, depending on the unit and all well after the radar detector would alert. Total cost under $5K. The navigation system already warns when over the speed limit, and she is adding a "license plate flipper." Not illegal to have but circumstantially is to use.

    I didn't ask for it and rarely would be turning on the radar detector and usually I'm well under the speed limit - sometimes annoyingly so to others, though I try not to impede traffic. On the other hand, if I really am in a hurry for some reason or on some long empty stretch in the middle of nowhere, I may open it up. Then again, sometimes she'll be driving and usually that's "hold her Johnny! She's headed for the barn!!!"
    Last edited by joko104; 10-15-13 at 10:43 PM.

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