View Poll Results: Abolish Traffic Enforcement Cameras

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  • All cameras should be abolished

    50 49.50%
  • Abolish red light cameras only

    5 4.95%
  • Abolish speeding cameras only

    7 6.93%
  • Abolish other types of cameras only (specify)

    0 0%
  • Allow all cameras to remain in use

    28 27.72%
  • Other (specify)

    11 10.89%
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Thread: Abolish Traffic Enforcement Cameras

  1. #291
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    Re: Abolish Traffic Enforcement Cameras

    I don't think many are considering the advances in technology and blind acceptance that computer robo-cops that are totally amoral, inhuman, have no soul, and are not flawless or without error, can turn anyone in a criminal with no human involved in that criminalization, cost a person not only money, but potential imprisonment, lose of legal rights, eviction, lose of job and financial ruin.

    Why stop at redlight and speeding cameras? Why not robo-cops in your cars? In chips in your body? From satellites in space and computers watching your internet and phone activities? Cameras and recorders everywhere, for which humans are replaced with computers as law enforcement and criminal justice? Computers becoming our masters and controllers, for which we are the herd managed, controlled and punished by machines.

    Exactly NO ONE can drive a car without committing a dozen offenses a day. Stopping too close to an intersection. Stopping to close to another car. Parking too far from a curb. Following closer than 1 car length per 10 mph. Not staying perfectly in your lane 100% of the time. Making turns or changing lanes without your turn signal before you start to make the change. Driving below the minimum speed limit in rush hour. The list is almost endless.

    Nor can few people go one day without committing a felony - which has often been proven. For which technology will rapidly allow robo-watching-computer-cops to basically turn everyone into a criminal.

    The answer by government? To make it only a CIVIL offense if you are caught and prosecuted by a robo-cop, but a criminal offense if by a live cop. Why? Because robo-cops are ONLY about the government taking money from people, nothing else.

    It is an absurd claim that someone's rear bump is 6 inches still in the intersection when a light goes red endangers anyone, but the cameras are set to only allow a 1/1000th of a second tolerance. Since cars navigation systems don't show the plat for every intersection nor do road crews lay concrete measured to the 1 millimeter, you don't even know technically where an intersection begins and ends. It is, literally, an impossible law to comply with 100% of the time.

    But to me, the REAL issue is the very concept of computer robo-cops with no human involvement in the process whatsoever. Maybe others like the concept of computers being capable of declaring you are a criminal and filing and pursuing a case - criminal or civil against you. I'm totally opposed to it. I don't think computers should be able to automatically file any kind of legal case against anyone - ever.
    Last edited by joko104; 10-15-13 at 12:16 PM.

  2. #292
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    Re: Abolish Traffic Enforcement Cameras

    This is where the desires of redlight/speeding cameras evolves:



    This is my view:



    Well, I don't particularly want to run thru the streets naked with green jello on me...
    Last edited by joko104; 10-15-13 at 12:31 PM.

  3. #293
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    Re: Abolish Traffic Enforcement Cameras

    A live human police officer can:
    1. Confirm the license plate is real
    2. The license plate matches the car
    3. The license number is actual what it appears to be from a distance
    4. Who is driving the car.

    Robo-camera-computer-cops can do none of those things. A bit of dirt can turn a 6 into an 8 and a reflection turn an 8 into a 6. Computer traffic lights do sometime fail to time correctly. There are no marks on the road saying where the intersection actually begins and ends. Nor any sign for traffic lights saying how long the yellow lasts either.

    Once a car is in an intersection the drive can't control it if another car slows or stops in front of them. I suppose the law now requires you hit the gas and ram/shove the other car thru the intersection in time to not be a criminal. In a pissy mood? Just stop your car immediately when you are out of the intersect. HA! HA! you just got 3 total strangers redlight tickets - and then just go on your way. Claim you saw a cat run in front of you in the 1 in 10,000 chance a cop saw you do that.

    It would be a piece of cake to set an enemy up with just a photocopy machine. Traffic monitoring computers do glitch - ask the people who get $100,000 toll fees for such glitches etc etc.

    NONE of that an happen with a live cop. ALL OF THAT WILL HAPPEN with a robo-cop.

    A person can suddenly find they can not renew their license plates or DL renewed until they spend 15 days in 4 different courts in a state 2,000 miles away they've never been in. But the government doesn't care, they want the money and people who want to enhance their view of god-government to computer-god-government really don't care at those small number of innocent victims. They have a dogmatic belief in being watched and controlled and want everyone else to be controlled too regardless of actual consequences.

    It is not the reality they want, but the concept of endlessly more government control and government punishment of people. Their motive is always the same. Intense personal internal fear.

    For such people, there would never be enough prison cells nor ever enough power or money to government. In my opinion, they never really grew up and what government to be their mommy and daddy protecting and providing for them.
    Last edited by joko104; 10-15-13 at 01:00 PM.

  4. #294
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    Re: Abolish Traffic Enforcement Cameras

    Quote Originally Posted by Phys251 View Post
    In this lawsuit-happy day and age, one would be crazy to tailgate like that. And for those that choose to, they'd better have excellent brakes...
    Good brakes won't avoid a redlight ticket. In fact, it is impossible to legally avoid being in an intersection when the light turns red with certainty.

    A person has NO control over how fast vehicles in front of them go thru an intersection or whether another vehicle in front slow down or stop or not. It is illegal to stop at every green light and wait for it to cycle thru yellow, red and back to green, plus that would bring all traffic to a standstill.

    There is absolutely no legal way a person can assuredly avoid a robo-cop redlight ticket because you have no control over what the vehicle in front of you will do. It is NOT rare for a person in a center or right lane to suddenly just stop deciding they want to turn left instead and wait for an opening to do so - leaving you stuck in the intersection.

    If you have a theory how a person can certainly avoid ever being in an intersection when the light turns red due to a vehicle in front suddenly slowing or stopping, explain how. Again, it is ILLEGAL and EXTREMELY dangerous to stop at green lights to assure you are the first car as you are waiting for it to cycle all the way back to green.

    Or do you advocate slamming/shoving such a car that slows or stops in front of you thru the intersection to not "break the law?"

  5. #295
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    Re: Abolish Traffic Enforcement Cameras

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    If safety is the main concern and why cameras are being deployed, then why not just redesign intersections and roads to meet high safety standards? Why is the actual focus just on fining drivers?

    Speeding and running stop lights are actually subjective offences. Sometimes you drifted slightly over the speed limit, oops we all do it. Sometimes traffic conditions means that you were in the middle of the intersection when the light changed red, oops but it isnt like you just ran a red light. Cameras have zero tolerance for such small mistakes that 100% of drivers make. Its a rigged game designed to make revenue just like any traditional speed trap.

    Traffic enforcement camera's are not bullet proof accurate devices. Business owner casts reasonable doubt on accuracy of speed cameras - Washington Times

    How many of these tickets are bogus?
    They found that increasing yellow lights by 1/2 second cuts redlight tickets about 80% - the reason no city with redlight cameras will do so. Add 1 second to yellow lights and it would eliminate running redlights 90%. Add a 1 second delay from when the light one way turns red to when the other turns green would eliminate 90% of redlight issues and radically reduces T-bone accidents. It has nothing to do with safety. Just money.

  6. #296
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    Re: Abolish Traffic Enforcement Cameras

    And redlight camera advocates grossly lie about statistics.

    They assert that all "T-bone" accidents are from people running traffic lights. I don't believe that for a second. I am very confident most T-bone accidents occur where there are stop signs and are due to the person not seeing the stop sign among an ocean of signs and distractions in urban areas. In rural areas, tall corn, plants, fading stop signs for getting old, even fallen or stolen stop signs often makes stop signs difficult to spot or are just gone. There are rural intersections with no stop signs and are presumed 4 way stops.

    For ALL T-bone accidents, I doubt 1 in 10,000 are the result of anyone deliberately running a redlight with cars coming the other way unless running from the police, racing or just deliberately driving recklessly. Redlight cameras won't stop one of those. T-Bones occur because people don't or can't see the stop sign, the light or the other car. "Yield" signs likely also cause many T-bone accident. Of itself, running a redlight or not being totally out of an intersection when the light turns red endangers no one.

    What is known is that redlight cameras radically increase rear-end collisions. Statistically, if nationwide, that would cause about 350,000 to 400,000 more accidents rear-end collisions PER YEAR, of which statistically 20% cause serious injuries - and the cost would be in the billions each year.
    Last edited by joko104; 10-15-13 at 01:28 PM.

  7. #297
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    Re: Abolish Traffic Enforcement Cameras

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Easy way to avoid tickets given because of traffic cameras. Don't break the law.
    one can't always predict that someone 8-10 cars in front of you is going to stop hanging you out to dry in an intersection that is changing. I have fought 3 camera tickets in court and won all three.

  8. #298
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    Re: Abolish Traffic Enforcement Cameras

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocketman View Post
    one can't always predict that someone 8-10 cars in front of you is going to stop hanging you out to dry in an intersection that is changing. I have fought 3 camera tickets in court and won all three.
    Am I the only person who actually ran the red light and acknowledges it?

  9. #299
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    Re: Abolish Traffic Enforcement Cameras

    Quote Originally Posted by year2late View Post
    Am I the only person who actually ran the red light and acknowledges it?
    I doubt it, I have paid them before but 3 times I shouldn't have and didn't

  10. #300
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    Re: Abolish Traffic Enforcement Cameras

    Quote Originally Posted by year2late View Post
    Am I the only person who actually ran the red light and acknowledges it?
    I've run redlights. Do so nearly every day. This place is a ghost town at light and some lights take up to 5 minutes to cycle thru. Sitting at a redlight for 5 minutes, no car as far as the eye can see in every direction, is just being the ultimate sheeple in my opinion.

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