View Poll Results: Abolish Columbus Day, replace it with Bartolomé Day?

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  • Yes

    46 51.69%
  • No

    43 48.31%
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Thread: Should we abolish Columbus Day?

  1. #391
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    Re: Should we abolish Columbus Day?

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Not from that day and age.
    You are again judging him by today's standards and not his own day's standards.
    By taking the position that because a thing was done then it was [more] acceptable, you'd have to extend that logic to any atrocities committed today. The official count is that there are currently 30 million slaves worldwide today. From the viewpoint of those studying history four hundred years from now one might arrive at the conclusion that the 21st century was just a different time and that slavery was fine.

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    Re: Should we abolish Columbus Day?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    By taking the position that because a thing was done then it was [more] acceptable, you'd have to extend that logic to any atrocities committed today. The official count is that there are currently 30 million slaves worldwide today. From the viewpoint of those studying history four hundred years from now one might arrive at the conclusion that the 21st century was just a different time and that slavery was fine.
    Except slavery is universally decried today and actively combated by virtually every government and international law enforcement organization. A more apt analogy might be how people four hundred years from now look upon our explanations for 'collateral damage' in warfare as acceptable and something we generally shrug at. Likewise some of the things Columbus did (the bloody raids against the Taino's) were more or less tolerated even in his time, others were considered terrible even for the 16th Century and he was punished as a result. It is the latter that makes him particularly unpleasant.

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    Re: Should we abolish Columbus Day?

    Columbus day should be re-named national racist, gold greed, exploiting scumbag day and keep the three day weekend. We all need a Monday off around this time of the year.
    Why not celebrate it for what really happened instead of deluding ourselves into believing that something wonderful occurred.

  4. #394
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    Re: Should we abolish Columbus Day?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    Except slavery is universally decried today and actively combated by virtually every government and international law enforcement organization. A more apt analogy might be how people four hundred years from now look upon our explanations for 'collateral damage' in warfare as acceptable and something we generally shrug at. Likewise some of the things Columbus did (the bloody raids against the Taino's) were more or less tolerated even in his time, others were considered terrible even for the 16th Century and he was punished as a result. It is the latter that makes him particularly unpleasant.
    It's difficult to say to what extent slavery was decried back then as there wasn't a democratic medium such as newspapers, let alone the internet. For all we know the majority of the peasantry and middle class abhorred slavery but, hey, monarchy, so screw their unwashed, stupid opinions. In any case, knowing what we know now and how we feel about it, using somebody like Columbus as a role model today is repugnant. He's completely incompatible with our morals.
    Last edited by Cardinal; 10-21-13 at 12:17 AM.

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    Re: Should we abolish Columbus Day?

    Quote Originally Posted by Buck Ewer View Post
    Columbus day should be re-named national racist, gold greed, exploiting scumbag day and keep the three day weekend. We all need a Monday off around this time of the year.
    Why not celebrate it for what really happened instead of deluding ourselves into believing that something wonderful occurred.
    how about hysterical hyperbolic hissy fit day?

    England has Guy Fawkes day and he certainly was no hero to them



  6. #396
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    Re: Should we abolish Columbus Day?

    Quote Originally Posted by Buck Ewer View Post
    Columbus day should be re-named national racist, gold greed, exploiting scumbag day
    Sorry, I'd never be able to retain that.

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    Re: Should we abolish Columbus Day?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    Except slavery is universally decried today and actively combated by virtually every government and international law enforcement organization. A more apt analogy might be how people four hundred years from now look upon our explanations for 'collateral damage' in warfare as acceptable and something we generally shrug at. Likewise some of the things Columbus did (the bloody raids against the Taino's) were more or less tolerated even in his time, others were considered terrible even for the 16th Century and he was punished as a result. It is the latter that makes him particularly unpleasant.
    He tortured and maimed people for his own pleasure though, according to the OP. I don't think things like that have ever really been tolerated in civilized society.

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    Re: Should we abolish Columbus Day?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    You got me... you are a really smart guy.
    Yes I know. My IQ routinely tests between 153 and 167.
    Anything else you would like to say Alec, or will you finally stop with getting personal?
    My money is on you not stopping.


    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    It was pretty clear. You parroted my words. I said you did. You justified why you did it even saying you were parroting. Now you have some tough guy chip on your shoulder and are calling it, "throwing it in your face ROAR!!!" And there you go again parroting what I said. Are you able to actually think for yourself and come up with something original? Try it. Makes life more interesting.
    For heavens sah-keh.
    I said I parroted them back to you as they apply to you far more than they apply to me.
    And yes that is throwing them back in your face.
    It points out how juvenile you are being, and leaves no mistake how your own words are meant to be taken.
    And make no mistake, I am going to continue to do it.
    If you don't like it, your best bet is act like an adult and not throw them out there to begin with.


    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    I am confused
    We know you are, but you shouldn't be confused on that issue at all. Killing is not murder.


    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    I have been arguing that it is murder all along. Just not by the modern definition of the word.
    Said the guy who said he wasn't arguing that it was.
    Figures. I knew you didn't know what you were arguing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    I didn't argue that it was murder


    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    The modern definition is irrelevant to the fact that killing like that has ALWAYS been murder just as an apple has ALWAYS been an apple. Our terminology is irrelevant. Look, you don't get it.
    Wrong.
    You don't get it.
    Killing like that has not always been murder.

    This looks like it would be a great signature.

    Bodhisattva ~ "I didn't argue that it was murder"
    Bodhisattva ~ "I have been arguing that it is murder all along. "


    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    You said that he declared war on them. That requires a Declaration of War. That requires state approval. Where is the Declaration? They are written documents. Where is the Queens consent? This would be documented. You fail so big it is amazing.
    First of all, this is your failure.
    I stated that "He declared war", which is clearly supported by the information I provided.
    That information states that the "King Ferdinand ... gave him anything he needed to break and conquer the natives."
    Wtf do you think that means? Huh? Conquer. Is this another word you need explained to you?

    When the report stated that "his demands were met with surprising defiance which allowed him to then declare war" what the heck do you think "allowed him to declare war means?

    You are the one assuming and alleging that he needed the Queens approval. That is on you to support. So please provide proof of it.
    I supported what I said. It is now up to you to support what you say.
    But I know you wont.
    Because you failed to support any of your claims that you have been asked to thus far.


    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    The Vietnam War was not a declared war... that is the point that you missed. Some guy can't declare war on a nation. It requires state approval. Your use of terminolgy is so ****ed up.
    Your understanding is what is ****ed up.
    As with the Presidents during the Vietnam Conflict, he had the authority to act in such a way.
    It wasn't illegal.
    Duh!


    Nor do our laws of today apply to yesterday. Or did you not know that?

    And if anything, the proper comparison would have been between the Generals tasked with carrying out the actual conflict, as they were doing what was allowed.


    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He went to a foreign land and as such he was subject to their laws and procedures.
    More confusion on your part. As a conquer, he was not.



    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT THE LAWS FOR ****ING ****S SAKE!!!
    Jesus ****ing H. Christ! iLOL

    Yes you are.
    Murder is an illegal act.
    You can't call a legal killing murder.
    And looky there. Here you are contradicting yourself again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    Under today's laws it would be murder.

    You have no clue as what you have been arguing.




    I think I understand what the problem is.
    If you concede that simply killing is not murder, then your position that killing the unborn is murder falls.
    I would suggest we drop the discussion if this is the case, because I am not wrong, and you could never show that you aren't.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
    Aristotle
    (≚ᄌ≚)

  9. #399
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    Re: Should we abolish Columbus Day?

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Why? Because The Indians discovered Hispanola?



    What are you trying to say--that Native Americans were not already here?

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    Re: Should we abolish Columbus Day?

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Yes I know. My IQ routinely tests between 153 and 167.
    Anything else you would like to say Alec, or will you finally stop with getting personal?
    My money is on you not stopping.


    For heavens sah-keh.
    I said I parroted them back to you as they apply to you far more than they apply to me.
    And yes that is throwing them back in your face.
    It points out how juvenile you are being, and leaves no mistake how your own words are meant to be taken.
    And make no mistake, I am going to continue to do it.
    If you don't like it, your best bet is act like an adult and not throw them out there to begin with.


    We know you are, but you shouldn't be confused on that issue at all. Killing is not murder.


    Said the guy who said he wasn't arguing that it was.
    Figures. I knew you didn't know what you were arguing.


    Wrong.
    You don't get it.
    Killing like that has not always been murder.

    This looks like it would be a great signature.

    Bodhisattva ~ "I didn't argue that it was murder"
    Bodhisattva ~ "I have been arguing that it is murder all along. "


    First of all, this is your failure.
    I stated that "He declared war", which is clearly supported by the information I provided.
    That information states that the "King Ferdinand ... gave him anything he needed to break and conquer the natives."
    Wtf do you think that means? Huh? Conquer. Is this another word you need explained to you?

    When the report stated that "his demands were met with surprising defiance which allowed him to then declare war" what the heck do you think "allowed him to declare war means?

    You are the one assuming and alleging that he needed the Queens approval. That is on you to support. So please provide proof of it.
    I supported what I said. It is now up to you to support what you say.
    But I know you wont.
    Because you failed to support any of your claims that you have been asked to thus far.


    Your understanding is what is ****ed up.
    As with the Presidents during the Vietnam Conflict, he had the authority to act in such a way.
    It wasn't illegal.
    Duh!


    Nor do our laws of today apply to yesterday. Or did you not know that?

    And if anything, the proper comparison would have been between the Generals tasked with carrying out the actual conflict, as they were doing what was allowed.


    More confusion on your part. As a conquer, he was not.



    Jesus ****ing H. Christ! iLOL

    Yes you are.
    Murder is an illegal act.
    You can't call a legal killing murder.
    And looky there. Here you are contradicting yourself again.


    You have no clue as what you have been arguing.




    I think I understand what the problem is.
    If you concede that simply killing is not murder, then your position that killing the unborn is murder falls.
    I would suggest we drop the discussion if this is the case, because I am not wrong, and you could never show that you aren't.
    Why are you going to such lengths with these long posts to defend this guy's actions. Who cares what the laws were. The point is he was a savage who enjoyed torturing and maiming people. Just because the law back then did not recognize natives or other people of color as being actual people in no way justifies those actions.

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