View Poll Results: Abolish Columbus Day, replace it with Bartolomé Day?

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  • Yes

    46 51.69%
  • No

    43 48.31%
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Thread: Should we abolish Columbus Day?

  1. #361
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    Re: Should we abolish Columbus Day?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    No, I'm viewing his actions in accordance with how an educated and civilized society would view them.

    No, you are viewing them from what you believe an educated and civilized society would, your educated and civilized society. Which is you viewing them from your time frame, and not his.
    His time was also one of education and civilization. They just had different standards.

    Just as Truman's actions (which you keep avoiding) were viewed in his time as coming from an educated and civilized societal viewpoint, so will someone in the future try to use propaganda and bias to sway the weak minded that Truman's actions were criminal (in their educated and civilized time frame) even though they weren't.


    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Regardless of your opinions or how you choose to view things, what he did to those people was horrible.
    And yet still not murder. Go figure.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
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    Re: Should we abolish Columbus Day?

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Take your little naughty finger and . . . well you know.


    No, you are viewing them from what you believe an educated and civilized society would, your educated and civilized society. Which is you viewing them from your time frame, and not his.
    No, I am viewing them from a more educated, technologically advanced and civilized world. That was a silly statement. Education in those times was only for the rich and wealthy. Poor people were not "entitled" to an education in those times. In most of the civilized world today (note the term "civilized") even the poorest people have access to an education. We have learned a LOT of things since the 15th century for God's sake.


    His time was also one of education and civilization. They just had different standards.
    Ha-ha! Now that is just unbelievable. They had "different standards" because they were LESS civilized and LESS educated. Some of them didn't realize that the native peoples were actually HUMAN BEINGS and not animals. Thanks be to God we don't view things like that anymore. Times when they could cut off your hands for stealing food.


    Just as Truman's actions (which you keep avoiding) were viewed in his time as coming from an educated and civilized societal viewpoint, so will someone in the future try to use propaganda and bias to sway the weak minded that Truman's actions were criminal (in their educated and civilized time frame) even though they weren't.
    WTH?! This thread is about COLUMBUS. Get a grip.

    And yet still not murder. Go figure.
    '

    It was and is murder. Even his own people (though many were not very highly educated and they pretty much had a poor and primitive understanding of the world compared to today's standards) from his own times were outraged by his actions. Go figure.

  3. #363
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    Re: Should we abolish Columbus Day?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    No, I am viewing them from a more educated, technologically advanced and civilized world.

    No.
    You are again assuming. That is nothing more than what you believe to be true. That does not necessarily make it true through.
    You have no idea if 2000 years down the road they will look upon his time as more civilized and educated then ours.


    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Education in those times was only for the rich and wealthy. Poor people were not "entitled" to an education in those times. In most of the civilized world today (note the term "civilized") even the poorest people have access to an education. We have learned a LOT of things since the 15th century for God's sake.
    And?
    That may be the only proper division or education that a society really needs.
    You cant say it definitely isn't, only that you believe it isn't.


    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Ha-ha! Now that is just unbelievable. They had "different standards" because they were LESS civilized and LESS educated. Some of them didn't realize that the native peoples were actually HUMAN BEINGS and not animals. Thanks be to God we don't view things like that anymore. Times when they could cut off your hands for stealing food.
    They were just as civilized and law abiding as we are today. They just had different standards.
    That in no way make them Less civilized.
    Time changes and the pendulum swings in a different direction.
    You have no idea if humans will again view things the way they previously did.
    Or even come to realize that an over populated world requires different standards of civilization where it would be ok to dispatched with the weak and unfruitful.


    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    WTH?! This thread is about COLUMBUS. Get a grip.
    Of course it is, which is why you can not come up with a response that is on point, as Truman's actions are on the same equivalency of Columbus's.



    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    It was and is murder.

    No it wasn't.
    Murder is illegal. He was allowed to do as he did. His actions were legal and therefore not murder.
    Just as Truman was allowed to do as he did and not murder.


    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Even his own people (though many were not very highly educated and they pretty much had a poor and primitive understanding of the world compared to today's standards) from his own times were outraged by his actions. Go figure.
    Few were. Go figure.
    Just like few were outraged by Truman's actions. Go figure.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
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    Re: Should we abolish Columbus Day?

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Again, with the stupid condescending finger, like I said last time . . .

    No.
    You are again assuming. That is nothing more than what you believe to be true. That does not necessarily make it true through.
    You have no idea if 2000 years down the road they will look upon his time as more civilized and educated then ours.
    That has nothing to do with what we are talking about. WE are more technologically advanced than society was in the 15th century. Goodness, that was kind of ignorant.

    And?
    That may be the only proper division or education that a society really needs.
    You cant say it definitely isn't, only that you believe it isn't.
    Good Lord.


    They were just as civilized and law abiding as we are today. They just had different standards.
    That in no way make them Less civilized.
    Time changes and the pendulum swings in a different direction.
    You have no idea if humans will again view things the way they previously did.
    Irrelevant. We are from today's times and standards, and we do NOT celebrate savage killers.

    Or even come to realize that an over populated world requires different standards of civilization where it would be ok to dispatched with the weak and unfruitful.
    Again, this is completely irrelevant to the topic.

    Of course it is, which is why you can not come up with a response that is on point, as Truman's actions are on the same equivalency of Columbus's.
    No, I'm sticking with the subject matter and basing my opinions on the subject's actions. WTH does anyone else have to do with it? Obviously that is a strawman because that's the best you can do.




    No it wasn't.
    Murder is illegal. He was allowed to do as he did. His actions were legal and therefore not murder.
    Just as Truman was allowed to do as he did and not murder.
    No he wasn't "allowed" to do as he did, hence why he was brought up on charges but "cleared" and was still shunned by the community at large even back then according to a lot of their uncivilized standards and uneducated opinions.

    Few were. Go figure.
    Just like few were outraged by Truman's actions. Go figure.
    I guess it's apparent that you can't win this argument based on the merits of this disgusting man, the reason why you keep bringing Truman into it. I'm NOT taking your bait.

  5. #365
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    Re: Should we abolish Columbus Day?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    That has nothing to do with what we are talking about.

    Your assumptions are exactly what we are talking about.


    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    WE are more technologically advanced than society was in the 15th century. Goodness, that was kind of ignorant.
    Apparently you didn't notice that technologically advanced was struck out of the quote like this. technologically advanced
    It has no bearing on what occurred.



    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Good Lord.
    Showing you are out of your depth in this discussion.


    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Irrelevant. We are from today's times and standards, and we do NOT celebrate savage killers.

    No it isn't irrelevant.
    It shows that viewing things from your time perspective, and not the time they happened in, is flawed.


    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Again, this is completely irrelevant to the topic.

    No it is not. It shows how viewing things from your own time perspective is ridiculous.


    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    No, I'm sticking with the subject matter and basing my opinions on the subject's actions. WTH does anyone else have to do with it? Obviously that is a strawman because that's the best you can do.

    A relevant comparison is not a straw-man. Or don't you know that?


    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    No he wasn't "allowed" to do as he did, hence why he was brought up on charges but "cleared" and was still shunned by the community at large even back then according to a lot of their uncivilized standards and uneducated opinions.
    One. Yes he was allowed to do as he did hence his being cleared.
    Two. And most importantly, you have yet failed to provide proof of his actual charges to even make the claim that he was charged with such.
    So again, as previously stated, prove it.
    Stop lying and talking untransportable propagandist smack and prove it.


    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    I guess it's apparent that you can't win this argument based on the merits of this disgusting man, the reason why you keep bringing Truman into it. I'm NOT taking your bait.
    If this is about winning, I won long ago, as legal killings are not Murder.
    Last edited by Excon; 10-19-13 at 11:56 AM.
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  6. #366
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    Re: Should we abolish Columbus Day?

    barbaric spanish colombo

    you should have learnt how to be civilized from anglo saxons




    because they never killed any native
    "Sovereignty is not given, it is taken." ATATÜRK

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    Re: Should we abolish Columbus Day?

    Quote Originally Posted by Medusa View Post
    barbaric spanish colombo

    you should have learnt how to be civilized from anglo saxons




    because they never killed any native
    That's not cute. Stick to the topic or I will report you for flaming.

  8. #368
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    Re: Should we abolish Columbus Day?

    Quote Originally Posted by Juanita View Post
    Maybe they should rename it Native American Day...
    Why? Because The Indians discovered Hispanola?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Should we abolish Columbus Day?

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    And you are still judging by today's standards.
    It wasn't illegal for him to do. And that is what you must judge by.

    So Truman purposely killed many more and caused great many to enduring great suffering.
    What he did was also legal. Do you really not understand the distinction being made?
    I am curious, and it pains me to bring this up, but is it possible that given how the war was going and in what direction the war was going that nuclear weapons actually saved lives?

    The planned invasion of Japan would have cost hundreds of thousands of American lives let alone Japanese lives.

  10. #370
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    Re: Should we abolish Columbus Day?

    Quote Originally Posted by year2late View Post
    I am curious, and it pains me to bring this up, but is it possible that given how the war was going and in what direction the war was going that nuclear weapons actually saved lives?

    The planned invasion of Japan would have cost hundreds of thousands of American lives let alone Japanese lives.
    Your question is irrelevant to that which was stated.
    It was a comparison (although badly worded) as to what was legal.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
    Aristotle
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