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Does refusing to give Obama anything he wants constitute closing down the government?

Does not giving the president everything he wants constitute government closure?


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joko104

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Republicans offered to vote for all government operations except Obamacare, exercising the perogatives of Congress in the Constitution. In response, the Democrats in the Senate on Obama's urging shut down the entire government. The media reports it that Republicans shut down the entire government by not giving Obama what he wants.

The same is arising on the debt ceiling. Unless Republicans do everything and anything Obama wants, Senate Democrats will default the government. The media reports this as Republicans' fault because it is presented as a truism that refusing any amount of money Obama wants is per se shutting down the entire government.

Do you agree that refusing to give Obama any and all money he wants constitutes shutting down government entirely?
 
Re: Does refusing to give Obama anything he wants constitute closing down the governm

The Dems have already compromised on the budget, with spending down to near Ryan budget levels, it's the republicans idiocy and unwillingness to compromise that caused this shutdown.
 
Re: Does refusing to give Obama anything he wants constitute closing down the governm

Ya know what never mind.
 
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Re: Does refusing to give Obama anything he wants constitute closing down the governm

The Dems have already compromised on the budget, with spending down to near Ryan budget levels, it's the republicans idiocy and unwillingness to compromise that caused this shutdown.

Sorry, but that is not true. Senate Democrats only voted to pass a CR that set annual spending at $986 billion, but only through November 15, 2013. That's not giving in to anything other than spin to create more talking points.

On a party-line 54-46 roll call, the Senate rejected language passed over the weekend to repeal a 2.3 percent tax on medical devices and delay Obamacare by a year, leaving the House with the same Senate language it received on Friday: A bill that keeps the government funded at a $986 billion annual level through Nov. 15.

Read more: Government shutdown: Mitch McConnell weighs one-week CR - POLITICO.com
 
Re: Does refusing to give Obama anything he wants constitute closing down the governm

Republicans offered to vote for all government operations except Obamacare, exercising the perogatives of Congress in the Constitution. In response, the Democrats in the Senate on Obama's urging shut down the entire government. The media reports it that Republicans shut down the entire government by not giving Obama what he wants.

The same is arising on the debt ceiling. Unless Republicans do everything and anything Obama wants, Senate Democrats will default the government. The media reports this as Republicans' fault because it is presented as a truism that refusing any amount of money Obama wants is per se shutting down the entire government.

Do you agree that refusing to give Obama any and all money he wants constitutes shutting down government entirely?

Of course not, we should give into a small number of back bench Representatives and shut down the government unless they get what they want.
 
Re: Does refusing to give Obama anything he wants constitute closing down the governm

I'm not even sure what Democrats are even arguing for at this point. It looks like they just recognize that they have a very complicit media and have decided to shut down the government because that complicit media will just blame Republicans.
 
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Re: Does refusing to give Obama anything he wants constitute closing down the governm

Do you agree that refusing to give Obama any and all money he wants constitutes shutting down government entirely?

The CONGRESS couldn't pass a budget, as is their responsibility per the constitution, prior to the end of the year and then couldn't garner the support to pass legislation that traditionally is used as a temporary, emergency, continuation of funding but has recently became the defacto means of funding the government. As such, it constitutes CONGRESS as shutting down government entirely.

Obama has no DIRECT responsibility, as a bill never reached his desk to either sign or veto. He has indirect responsibility in terms of his impact in getting a budget passed and then later getting a CR passed, but he's not DIRECTLY responsible for the shut down. That responsibility falls on the CONGRESS, both the Senate and the House.
 
Re: Does refusing to give Obama anything he wants constitute closing down the governm

I mean considering this is Congress itself not being able to pass anything, then the fault lies with the House and Senate. It is okay. Eventually they will grow up.
 
Re: Does refusing to give Obama anything he wants constitute closing down the governm

Republicans offered to vote for all government operations except Obamacare, exercising the perogatives of Congress in the Constitution. In response, the Democrats in the Senate on Obama's urging shut down the entire government. The media reports it that Republicans shut down the entire government by not giving Obama what he wants.

The same is arising on the debt ceiling. Unless Republicans do everything and anything Obama wants, Senate Democrats will default the government. The media reports this as Republicans' fault because it is presented as a truism that refusing any amount of money Obama wants is per se shutting down the entire government.

Do you agree that refusing to give Obama any and all money he wants constitutes shutting down government entirely?

And so the blame game continues. The longer it continues, the worse things get for every one else. All this post is trying to do is assign blame to win a few political points. It has no bearing on reality and is another Joko poll based on flat out lies and distortions.
 
Re: Does refusing to give Obama anything he wants constitute closing down the governm

The majority of the "majority caucus" is not a majority of the House.
Appears to be at odds with the idea of a people's House.
like the Constitution, only when you like Roberts rulings.
In power rankings, I have Obama, Reid, Boehner, Can'tor, Roberts, Schumer, Ryan, McConnell
 
Re: Does refusing to give Obama anything he wants constitute closing down the governm

I'm not even sure what Democrats are even arguing for at this point. It looks like they just recognize that they have a very complicit media and have decided to shut down the government because that complicit media will just blame Republicans.

I believe a "clean CR" with ZERO extraneous laws attached as policy riders and poison pills, the Repub House version of a filibuster.
Then we can have a "conversation".
 
Re: Does refusing to give Obama anything he wants constitute closing down the governm

This is Obama's idea of negotiation:

Readout of the President’s Call to House Speaker John Boehner
Late this morning, the President telephoned Speaker John Boehner from the Oval Office and repeated what he told him when they met at the White House last week: the President is willing to negotiate with Republicans -- after the threat of government shutdown and default have been removed – over policies that Republicans think would strengthen the country. The President also repeated his willingness to negotiate on priorities that he has identified including policies that expand economic opportunity, support private sector job creation, enhance the competitiveness of American businesses, strengthen the Affordable Care Act and continue to reduce the nation’s deficit.

The President urged the Speaker to hold a vote in the House of Representatives on the Senate-passed measure that would re-open the federal government immediately. Citing the Senate’s intention to pass a clean, yearlong extension of the debt limit this week, the President also pressed the Speaker to allow a timely up-or-down vote in the House to raise the debt limit with no ideological strings attached. He noted that only Congress has the authority to raise the debt limit and failure to do so would have grave consequences for middle class families and the American economy as a whole.

Readout of the President

That's straight from the horse's mouth. Give me everything I want and I triple dog promise I'll negotiate with you. But look at what he promises to negotiate. Like promising to negotiate ways to strengthen the Affordable Care Act. Yeah, right, the opposite of what we want.

Screw this president and screw the dem senate, house members hold the line!
 
Re: Does refusing to give Obama anything he wants constitute closing down the governm

Republicans offered to vote for all government operations except Obamacare, exercising the perogatives of Congress in the Constitution. In response, the Democrats in the Senate on Obama's urging shut down the entire government. The media reports it that Republicans shut down the entire government by not giving Obama what he wants.

The same is arising on the debt ceiling. Unless Republicans do everything and anything Obama wants, Senate Democrats will default the government. The media reports this as Republicans' fault because it is presented as a truism that refusing any amount of money Obama wants is per se shutting down the entire government.

Do you agree that refusing to give Obama any and all money he wants constitutes shutting down government entirely?

Yeah Obama criticized the Republicans before the shutdown by saying (paraphrasing) "They are gonna shutdown the government just because they don't get everything they want on this one issue?" The problem Mr. Obama, is that is the EXACT thing you did!
 
Re: Does refusing to give Obama anything he wants constitute closing down the governm

Yeah Obama criticized the Republicans before the shutdown by saying (paraphrasing) "They are gonna shutdown the government just because they don't get everything they want on this one issue?" The problem Mr. Obama, is that is the EXACT thing you did!

Except it's not because Obama is not the one that funds the government!
 
Re: Does refusing to give Obama anything he wants constitute closing down the governm

Except it's not because Obama is not the one that funds the government!

And who do you think is calling the shots for Senate Democrats? :doh
 
Re: Does refusing to give Obama anything he wants constitute closing down the governm

And who do you think is calling the shots for Senate Democrats? :doh

That's not my point.

What concessions are the democrats asking for? None, it is purely one sided bargaining from the Republicans. You cannot call for a compromise when there is only one side trying to gain anything from this situation. A real compromise would be if the spending bill without the republicans demands went through and was passed. This won't happen though because Boehner and some congressional republicans wont put it up for a vote.

What republicans are asking for is not a compromise right now, it is a concession for absolutely nothing in return. It is overwhelmingly the Republicans fault this shutdown is still occurring right now.
 
Re: Does refusing to give Obama anything he wants constitute closing down the governm

I believe a "clean CR" with ZERO extraneous laws attached as policy riders and poison pills, the Repub House version of a filibuster.
Then we can have a "conversation".

So the government is shutdown because DEMOCRATS want REPUBLICANS to fund a bill DEMOCRATS are currently blocking?

C'mon, now. At what point do we cross the line to partisan stupidity?
 
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Re: Does refusing to give Obama anything he wants constitute closing down the governm

That's not my point.

What concessions are the democrats asking for? None, it is purely one sided bargaining from the Republicans. You cannot call for a compromise when there is only one side trying to gain anything from this situation. A real compromise would be if the spending bill without the republicans demands went through and was passed. This won't happen though because Boehner and some congressional republicans wont put it up for a vote.

What republicans are asking for is not a compromise right now, it is a concession for absolutely nothing in return. It is overwhelmingly the Republicans fault this shutdown is still occurring right now.

And in your scenario the "clean CR" how is that a compromise?

And the compromise that the Republicans are asking for is good for someone else, THE AMERICAN PEOPLE!
 
Re: Does refusing to give Obama anything he wants constitute closing down the governm

This is Obama's idea of negotiation:

That's straight from the horse's mouth. Give me everything I want and I triple dog promise I'll negotiate with you. But look at what he promises to negotiate. Like promising to negotiate ways to strengthen the Affordable Care Act. Yeah, right, the opposite of what we want.

Screw this president and screw the dem senate, house members hold the line!
:lamo

I'm sorry, are you really mad because the President said he'll negotiate with Congress once Congress quits acting like a children and does the things it is REQUIRED to do?

The partisanship is thick.
 
Re: Does refusing to give Obama anything he wants constitute closing down the governm

Republicans offered to vote for all government operations except Obamacare, exercising the perogatives of Congress in the Constitution. In response, the Democrats in the Senate on Obama's urging shut down the entire government. The media reports it that Republicans shut down the entire government by not giving Obama what he wants.

The same is arising on the debt ceiling. Unless Republicans do everything and anything Obama wants, Senate Democrats will default the government. The media reports this as Republicans' fault because it is presented as a truism that refusing any amount of money Obama wants is per se shutting down the entire government.

Do you agree that refusing to give Obama any and all money he wants constitutes shutting down government entirely?

Jesus H. Christ. I'm consistently amazed at the almost demented delusion some of my fellow Republican/Conservative/Libertarian/InsertTitle are showing in this crisis. You do not get to shut down the government and threaten its proper functioning because a piece of legislation passed that you do not like. Sure you can but it is a terrible precedent to set and you deserve every electoral knock you get.

We failed to block it in 2010, we failed to win control of the Senate that November, we lost the Presidential election, we lost the legal battle before the Supreme Court, and all of our efforts to defund it have failed. The solution? Literally bring down the government.

Refusing to 'give' Obama his money? Good grief. This is allocations for legislation already passed and budgets already approved. Nothing that will happen in this 'battle' will lead to the ACA being altered, delayed, or repealed.

I'm a GOP donor, voter, and volunteer. This is a travesty.
 
Re: Does refusing to give Obama anything he wants constitute closing down the governm

Yeah Obama criticized the Republicans before the shutdown by saying (paraphrasing) "They are gonna shutdown the government just because they don't get everything they want on this one issue?" The problem Mr. Obama, is that is the EXACT thing you did!

The difference is 'his issue' is law, it's law with funding already allocated. That's why we head a vote on this in 2010, why we fought a brutal Midterm and Presidential election campaign largely on this topic, why we took this to the Supreme Court, and why we spent so much time and energy mobilizing support to repeal it. Every single attempt has been checked. The result? That this is law and it is legitimately so. The gall to claim that at this final juncture the President is the one being stubborn is audibly ludicrous.
 
Re: Does refusing to give Obama anything he wants constitute closing down the governm

The difference is 'his issue' is law, it's law with funding already allocated. That's why we head a vote on this in 2010, why we fought a brutal Midterm and Presidential election campaign largely on this topic, why we took this to the Supreme Court, and why we spent so much time and energy mobilizing support to repeal it. Every single attempt has been checked. The result? That this is law and it is legitimately so. The gall to claim that at this final juncture the President is the one being stubborn is audibly ludicrous.

I wouldn't say legitimately. You forget the Supreme Court edited the law to be a tax rather than a fine to make it legal. And the President IS being stubborn.
 
Re: Does refusing to give Obama anything he wants constitute closing down the governm

If I recall correctly the GOP controlled House voted over 31 times to repeal the ACA. I also recall someone saying doing the same thing repeatedly but expecting a different result is the definition of stupid or insanity, I can't remember which.

I hazard to say the House Republicans could have done a lot in the time it took to pander to their base. I'd also say the ACA has been watered down and compromised quite a bit, all of which seems to only set the stage for a demand from the TPs for more concessions. Delaying the Big Business side of the ACA, and BB is no bastion of Democrat votes, only spurred the GOP on to demand more delays.

It was interesting to hear many more moderate Republicans thought the Cruz plan was ill advised. Even more telling is for all of that the GOP Senators voted as a locked block. Also an eye-opener a very junior Senator is leading the GOP wing in our Senate.

That something CAN be done in no way means it SHOULD be done. The House can refuse to fund the ACA, but in no way is the Senate or President bound to accept the back door repeal of ACA. (The House is but 1/3rd of our Legislative Government.) Nor should the House's TPs who are driving this be surprised if the Senate and President demand funding or no deal.

The TPs were ill-advised to make the fight at budget time as the stakes for the economy and people are just too high. I guess the TPs believe their own propaganda and they can't win an election on their political policies as there are too many 'takers' that don't own Fortune 500 companies. So the issue must be forced before any new elections, and the people see for themselves if the ACA helps or hurts.

Somewhere the concept of good for the country has been downgraded below good of a political theory. The TPs claim they are making this fight because the ACA will ruin the nation, but the method they are using to force what they couldn't get in the 1012 elections and 31 votes in the House is as ruinous as the perceived malady.

Something like the operation was 'necessary' but the patient's heart couldn't stand the stress. :doh
 
Re: Does refusing to give Obama anything he wants constitute closing down the governm

I wouldn't say legitimately. You forget the Supreme Court edited the law to be a tax rather than a fine to make it legal. And the President IS being stubborn.

Regardless of whether or not you agree with the Supreme Court decision (I don't agree with their justification either) the fact remains that it was legitimately conducted. It is valid legislation and it has already received its budget. This is desperate chicanery and its loathsome. As a conservative who values prudence, stability, and pragmatism I would never want to establish the precedent of holding our government and credit hostage each time we decide that there is something onerous a party wants to tear into. That is a recipe for recurring disaster.
 
Re: Does refusing to give Obama anything he wants constitute closing down the governm

Regardless of whether or not you agree with the Supreme Court decision (I don't agree with their justification either) the fact remains that it was legitimately conducted. It is valid legislation and it has already received its budget. This is desperate chicanery and its loathsome. As a conservative who values prudence, stability, and pragmatism I would never want to establish the precedent of holding our government and credit hostage each time we decide that there is something onerous a party wants to tear into. That is a recipe for recurring disaster.

Except there is precedent for this sort of thing.....
 
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