Not QUITE the same thing....
Not QUITE the same thing....
How about this? Republicans can have their defunded Obamacare, and basically destroy the whole program. But Democrats get something in exchange. Obviously, simply ending the shutdown isn't something for Democrats. That's something for everyone. So, if there are to be concessions, then Republicans have to give something in return. They can have their destruction of Obamacare, but they have to either give national support for SSM, or federally preempt voter ID laws. If the debt ceiling argument is now about partisan squabbles, then both sides ought to get something.
Liberté. Égalité. Fraternité.
There is only one side refusing to negotiate and that side is the one who shut down government.
I'm not sure if I'm seeing it all correctly but I'm of the understanding the GOP leadership of the House has shut down most of the federal government's non-emergency operations due to pressure from its Tea Party members. However, certain non-emergency services have continued to be funded due to the risk of political fallout such as military pay. The motive, at least initially, was to halt his signature legacy legislation, The Affordable Care Act by holding most federal funding hostage unless he agrees to bring the ACA to a halt. All this to support the prime-directive of doing everything within their sphere of influence to make the President's job as difficult as possible with hopes of ultimately causing a "failed" Presidential legacy; in essence spraying graffiti on what was otherwise one of the most historic presidencies ever. Don't be surprised if this Christmas season they decide to create a crisis that forces him to stay in Washington while his family is sent ahead to Hawaii to celebrate most the Christmas season without him.
I'm not saying there should not be an opposition to this or any White House only that the ACA was duly passed, upheld by the Supreme Court that the GOP idea of an individual mandate opposed by so many people who have health insurance is in fact constitutional and its repeal has absolutely nothing to do with keeping the National Park System and Passport office open.
Having opinions all over the map is a good sign of a person capable of autonomous thinking. Felix -2011
Well, no analogy is exact, and I'm not sure I was making an analogy anyway...more of a comparison. The Congress, and specifically the House in this instance, has a responsibility to fund the government. They aren't living up to their responsibilities, in a potentially very bad way. Government shutdown is one thing. The threat of default by the U.S. is rather more problematic.Originally Posted by joko104
Your analogy is somewhat more exact, depending on who exactly the mother and father represent in this case. It seems to me that if your view is not partisan, you shouldn't be thinking in terms of what the republicans want to do and what the democrats want to do (that seems like de facto partisan thinking). Rather, the issue seems to be that Congress has passed a law, and failed to repeal it. The law is constitutional. Once Congress made it a law, they have a responsibility to respect it as such.
Absolutely not.Originally Posted by joko104
I don't know that it would. This is why it is incumbent on the house to send a clean bill to the senate without further delay. If Republicans want to repeal the ACA, they should try to gain the requisite majority in both houses, and possibly the White House, and do so. If they cannot do those things, then it seems they should understand that's how our system of government is supposed to work.Originally Posted by joko104
Last edited by ashurbanipal; 10-09-13 at 10:13 AM.
Every representative and senator should vote their beliefs. If that means government shuts down, so be it. If there is something that there is enough agreement to fund, then it gets funded. The more granular these spending bills can get, the better, in my opinion.
Bundling of budgets even into the dozen or so spending bills forces all or nothing choices, this way all you need to do is get your pet project into the bill and it has a good chance of passing. If each bill were a couple pages long, it would be quicker to debate each one and then pass or reject it. If the President has to sign a couple hundred funding bills to keep the government going, then he would have a real excuse to not go to the Asia Pacific meeting.
If I come onto your porch and demand that you give me half of your house, would you agree to do so? Suppose the situation were such that others were watching, and I declared you were the one responsible for the impasse for being unwilling to negotiate.Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon
The point is that the ACA is a law. Congress passed it. The Supreme Court upheld it (by virtue of the vote of a conservative justice, I might add). Attempts to repeal it have failed. It's a house bought; there's no reason anyone should, or should have to, negotiate about defunding, delaying, or partially dismantling it.
I have heard talk of the Federal Government defaulting on it's debts.
Lets explore that some.
Alexander Hamilton Set up the Treasury to pay the bonds with incoming receipts.
So how much is coming in vs the value of bonds that come due each month.
From the current issue if the Treasury Bulletin.
Current Issue: Treasury Bulletin: Publications & Guidance: Financial Management Service look at Table 1-4
The Average on Budget monthly receipts exceed the the interest in all but one of the last 24 months.
Spending more than we make is always a concern, but we are unlikely to not meet
the next minimum payment.
Receipts in Billions
Interest on the debt.Total , on Budget, off Budget
2012 - June 260,177 205,262 54,916
July 184,585 141,402 43,183
Aug 178,860 134,871 43,989
Sept 261,566 213,401 48,165
Oct 184,316 144,166 40,150
Nov 161,730 118,560 43,169
Dec 269,508 230,049 39,459
2013 - Jan 272,225 207,810 64,415
Feb 122,815 67,807 55,008
Mar 186,018 120,570 65,448
Apr 406,723 332,553 74,170
May 197,182 139,762 57,420
June 286,627 220,392 66,235
2012 - June 103,887
2013 - Jan 17,817
"There is no higher religion than human service. To work for the common good is the greatest creed." -Woodrow Wilson
"What a man does for others, not what they do for him, gives him immortality"- Daniel Webster