View Poll Results: Is Boehner REALLY calling for negotiations?

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  • Yes, he wants "give and take"

    5 23.81%
  • No, he wants just "take"

    16 76.19%
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Thread: Is Boehner REALLY calling for negotiations?

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    Advisor aberrant85's Avatar
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    Is Boehner REALLY calling for negotiations?

    Obama Calls John Boehner, Says He Still Won't Negotiate

    Call it negotiations, call it compromise. Boehner is calling for it and Obama is standing firm.

    Here's the thing, though. If you assume the CR and debt ceiling are neutral ground, basically giving nothing to the Dems or the Repubs they don't already have or both need, then passing clean versions of each equal zero points for Dems and zero for Repubs.

    But Boehner wants to negotiate over them. He wants concessions, or let's say 1 point for the Repubs. If he got them, that would give Dems -1 points (not a compromise whatsoever, that's one side taking and the other giving).

    So wouldn't true compromise be Boehner getting something, like a medical tax repeal (1 point), and then giving the Dems something, like tax increases (1 point)? That's what a compromise/negotiation really looks like.

    So by those standards, does Boehner really want to compromise? Or does he just want stuff for free? Would you be willing to go into negotiations if you knew you had to give something away?
    "Obamacare delenda est"

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    Re: Is Boehner REALLY calling for negotiations?

    You're right. The President is taking the right tack on this. I just hope he's this firm when real hostage taking takes place by terrorists.

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    Re: Is Boehner REALLY calling for negotiations?

    The OP is making the mistake of thinking the two overarching issue negotiations can be condensed into Boehner and Obama in a vacuum. Nothing could be further from the truth.

    Obama, as always, is agenda driven with odd, not well understood, goals that generally harm Americans. Boehner is taking the position that he is taking because of pressure from his constituents, the American people, a majority of which do not want more debt nor do they want Obamacare.

    Because of this, we are seeing an increasing isolation and strange, vindictive reclusiveness of Obama, who is finding that his empty rhetoric is best received with live audiences of naive college students and selected minority groups.
    Last edited by Ray410; 10-08-13 at 01:52 PM.

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    Advisor aberrant85's Avatar
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    Re: Is Boehner REALLY calling for negotiations?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ray410 View Post
    The OP is making the mistake of thinking the two overarching issue negotiations can be condensed into Boehner and Obama in a vacuum. Nothing could be further from the truth.

    Obama, as always, is agenda driven with odd, not well understood, goals that generally harm Americans. Boehner is taking the position that he is taking because of pressure from his constituents, the American people, a majority of which do not want more debt nor do they want Obamacare.

    Because of this, we are seeing an increasing isolation and strange, vindictive reclusiveness of Obama, who is finding that his empty rhetoric is best received with live audiences of naive college students and selected minority groups.
    Your rhetorical mistake is filling the vacuum! The CR and debt ceiling are by their nature unconnected with unrelated programs like Obamacare. By insisting on negotiating either while attaching unrelated items, Boehner has added something new to the negotiations, meaning Dems could counter by adding their favorite items into negotiations, and then the two would give and take. That is what Boehner should be prepared for if he continues to demand concessions in a negotiation.

    My instinct tells me he would balk at any Democratic demands, which would reveal that he is not dealing in good faith.
    "Obamacare delenda est"

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    Re: Is Boehner REALLY calling for negotiations?

    Quote Originally Posted by aberrant85 View Post
    Your rhetorical mistake is filling the vacuum! The CR and debt ceiling are by their nature unconnected with unrelated programs like Obamacare. By insisting on negotiating either while attaching unrelated items, Boehner has added something new to the negotiations, meaning Dems could counter by adding their favorite items into negotiations, and then the two would give and take. That is what Boehner should be prepared for if he continues to demand concessions in a negotiation.

    My instinct tells me he would balk at any Democratic demands, which would reveal that he is not dealing in good faith.
    Obamacare is very much connected to the budget and a CR just means Clean Resolution. Obama's offer to negotiate comes down to the house dropping it's conditions with the meaningless promise the president will negotiate with them at a later time. Raising the debt ceiling is just another permission for the dem senate to continue to spend like drunken monkeys.

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    Re: Is Boehner REALLY calling for negotiations?

    Quote Originally Posted by aberrant85 View Post
    Obama Calls John Boehner, Says He Still Won't Negotiate

    Call it negotiations, call it compromise. Boehner is calling for it and Obama is standing firm.

    Here's the thing, though. If you assume the CR and debt ceiling are neutral ground, basically giving nothing to the Dems or the Repubs they don't already have or both need, then passing clean versions of each equal zero points for Dems and zero for Repubs.

    But Boehner wants to negotiate over them. He wants concessions, or let's say 1 point for the Repubs. If he got them, that would give Dems -1 points (not a compromise whatsoever, that's one side taking and the other giving).

    So wouldn't true compromise be Boehner getting something, like a medical tax repeal (1 point), and then giving the Dems something, like tax increases (1 point)? That's what a compromise/negotiation really looks like.

    So by those standards, does Boehner really want to compromise? Or does he just want stuff for free? Would you be willing to go into negotiations if you knew you had to give something away?
    Dems already got their tax increase.
    Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same.

    Ronald Reagan

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    Re: Is Boehner REALLY calling for negotiations?

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Obamacare is very much connected to the budget and a CR just means Clean Resolution. Obama's offer to negotiate comes down to the house dropping it's conditions with the meaningless promise the president will negotiate with them at a later time. Raising the debt ceiling is just another permission for the dem senate to continue to spend like drunken monkeys.
    CR=CONTINUING RESOLUTION

    As in "Clean CR"
    "Obamacare delenda est"

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    Re: Is Boehner REALLY calling for negotiations?

    No more revenue increases this Century to insure the fall of another Rome.
    Even though they were integral in Sen. Coburn's Back-in-Black plan from 2011, the Father of the "Grand Bargain".

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    Re: Is Boehner REALLY calling for negotiations?

    Quote Originally Posted by davidtaylorjr View Post
    Dems already got their tax increase.
    And Repubs got their spending cuts. So why are we here?
    "Obamacare delenda est"

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    Re: Is Boehner REALLY calling for negotiations?

    The budget is not on a path to balance, that's why we're still here. Furthermore, spending is still historically high as a percentage of GDP, while revenues are on track to return to their historical average very soon, if it isn't there already.

    We have a spending problem. Mainly an entitlement problem.

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