View Poll Results: If prostitution were legal... would pimps be "necessary"?

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  • Yes

    2 4.76%
  • No

    33 78.57%
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    7 16.67%
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Thread: If prostitution were legal...

  1. #131
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    Re: If prostitution were legal...

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    Feds are feds
    Obviously I hit a nerve with that observation that it was Republican Saint Ronnie who was the evil Destroyer of Freedom.
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  2. #132
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    Re: If prostitution were legal...

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrylek View Post
    Yes, I know. Some people think that it's always a threesome: he, she and God :-)



    Feeling - and trying to convince - is fine. When coercion begins, they violate the basic, "constitutional" moral law in favor of minor denominational or parochial regulations. (Every major religion does feature the Golden Rule prominently. Even the rules-obsessed Judaism. As Rabbi Hillel said in the 1st century BC, "That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary")
    I agree, but it's trying to convince the others that their moral codes don't necessarily apply to everyone that's the tricky part, because if you don't live by their rules you are contributing to the "downfall" of society in some people's minds.

  3. #133
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    Re: If prostitution were legal...

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Obviously I hit a nerve with that observation that it was Republican Saint Ronnie who was the evil Destroyer of Freedom.
    You are barking up the wrong tree. No nerve hit here, feds are feds and they don't like states defying fed authority.

  4. #134
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    Re: If prostitution were legal...

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    You are barking up the wrong tree. No nerve hit here, feds are feds and they don't like states defying fed authority.
    If you are correct - why then os prostitution in Nevada still operating ?
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  5. #135
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    Re: If prostitution were legal...

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrylek View Post
    What makes you think that "overwhelming majority" are from the EU countries? Oh, this quote from the first link you have provided, perhaps?

    "A criminal investigation in Germany in 1998 found that 87.5 percent of the women trafficked into Germany were from Eastern Europe. Seventeen percent were from Poland, 14 percent from Ukraine, 12 percent from Czech Republic and 8 percent from the Russian Federation"

    Well, in 1998 neither Poland nor Czech Republic were EU countries. Both joined in 2004.
    Ah, so you want newer information? Here we go - As recently as 2013:

    According to a spokesperson of the authorities, women aged 17-22 were forced to work as prostitutes in the streets of Bonn and Colon for 12-15 hours daily. They were lured to go to Germany with promises for job and marriage opportunities.

    The pimps would drive the forced sex workers to the streets and would collect them every day bringing them back to a place in a former train station in Hersel where the women slept in several small rooms.
    - See more at: German Police Bust 9 Bulgarian Nationals for Human Trafficking - Novinite.com - Sofia News Agency
    Further, if you look at the data, what you see is that up to 80% of prostitutes in Germany are non-German; Bulgaria and Romania (recent EU new members), indeed, providing most. But does it mean that all or majority of them had been forcibly "trafficked"? Especially if comparisons are made with women from Ukraine, Belarus or Russia?

    Even the tendentious article in Der Spiegel freely admits that "Statistically speaking, Germany has almost no problem with prostitution and human trafficking. According to the Federal Criminal Police Office (BKA), there were 636 reported cases of "human trafficking for the purpose of sexual exploitation" in 2011, or almost a third less than 10 years earlier. Thirteen of the victims were under 14, and another 77 were under 18"
    (Human Trafficking Persists Despite Legality of Prostitution in Germany - SPIEGEL ONLINE)

    636 is a tiny number for a country so huge, and the trend is downward. Gee, may that decrease in trafficking be, indeed due to a combination of prostitution being fully legal (since 2002, "coincidentally") AND freer labor movement, as EU is expanding?

    You always can find a bunch of disturbing anecdotes, and always can claim that a lot of trafficking is going unreported. But a drop by a third over ten years in what is found/reported - surely it correlates somehow with the underlying actual situation?
    From the same newspaper article:

    Human Trafficking Persists Despite Legality of Prostitution in Germany - SPIEGEL ONLINE

    When Germany legalized prostitution just over a decade ago, politicians hoped that it would create better conditions and more autonomy for sex workers. It hasn't worked out that way, though. Exploitation and human trafficking remain significant problems. By SPIEGEL Staff
    The police can do little for women like Alina. The pimps were prepared for raids, says Alina, and they used to boast that they knew police officers. "They knew when a raid was about to happen," says Alina, which is why she never dared to confide in a police officer.
    Has Germany's prostitution law improved the situation of women like Sina? Five years after it was introduced, the Family Ministry evaluated what the new legislation had achieved. The report states that the objectives were "only partially achieved," and that deregulation had "not brought about any measurable actual improvement in the social coverage of prostitutes." Neither working conditions nor the ability to exit the profession had improved. Finally, there was "no solid proof to date" that the law had reduced crime.
    According to a report on human trafficking recently presented by European Commissioner for Home Affairs Cecilia Malmström, there are more than 23,600 victims in the EU, and two-thirds of them are exploited sexually. Malmström, from Sweden, sees indications that criminal gangs are expanding their operations. Nevertheless, she says, the number of convictions is declining, because police are overwhelmed in their efforts to combat trafficking. She urges Germany to do more about the problem.
    So in essence, the article you posted, if you had read more than the first page, discredits the claim that deregulation and legalization will cut into the profits of criminal enterprises. Instead of shrinking, they are growing. Instead of the police seeing fewer cases, they are now overwhelmed by them. Want to try and read beyond the first page of the article?
    Last edited by Hatuey; 10-07-13 at 12:22 PM.
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  6. #136
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    Re: If prostitution were legal...

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    If you are correct - why then os prostitution in Nevada still operating ?
    Good question.

  7. #137
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    Re: If prostitution were legal...

    I say "No, and if farming were legal, neither would Monsanto"
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  8. #138
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    Re: If prostitution were legal...

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    The bottom line, which none of you can argue against, is that prostitution occurs whether it is legal or illegal, and that making it legal and regulating it makes it safer for all involved.
    Yes I can. And I have. You're simply choosing to ignore the evidence that is right in front of your face.

    Lots of people were persuaded by the very argument you're making. Hell, that used to be my position on prostitution too.

    But now actual data is coming in since a number of nations have legalized it in the past decade and it turns out that prediction is wrong. Legalization does almost nothing to reduce the occurrence of sex trafficking or abuse and actually appears to be making it worse.

    I'm sorry, Chris, but you can't just wave off the evidence because the conclusion doesn't fit your world view. The appropriate response is to try to understand WHY and adjust your opinions in light of new evidence, not to engage in willful ignorance and intellectual dishonesty.

    Human Trafficking Persists Despite Legality of Prostitution in Germany - SPIEGEL ONLINE

    http://www.lse.ac.uk/geographyAndEnv...us-REVISED.pdf

    German's legalized prostitution brought more exploitation than emancipation to women - National Human Rights | Examiner.com

    Study: Legalizing prostitution increases human trafficking | War of Ideas

  9. #139
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    Re: If prostitution were legal...

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    This is an empirical question that can be answered by looking at jurisdictions where prostitution is already legal.
    I believe there are pimps in Nevada where prostitution is legal.
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    Re: If prostitution were legal...

    Quote Originally Posted by the_recruit View Post
    Yes I can. And I have. You're simply choosing to ignore the evidence that is right in front of your face.

    Lots of people were persuaded by the very argument you're making. Hell, that used to be my position on prostitution too.

    But now actual data is coming in since a number of nations have legalized it in the past decade and it turns out that prediction is wrong. Legalization does almost nothing to reduce the occurrence of sex trafficking or abuse and actually appears to be making it worse.

    I'm sorry, Chris, but you can't just wave off the evidence because the conclusion doesn't fit your world view. The appropriate response is to try to understand WHY and adjust your opinions in light of new evidence, not to engage in willful ignorance and intellectual dishonesty.

    Human Trafficking Persists Despite Legality of Prostitution in Germany - SPIEGEL ONLINE

    http://www.lse.ac.uk/geographyAndEnv...us-REVISED.pdf

    German's legalized prostitution brought more exploitation than emancipation to women - National Human Rights | Examiner.com

    Study: Legalizing prostitution increases human trafficking | War of Ideas
    No, you are being willfully ignorant. I said we should look at what worked and did not and go from there.

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