View Poll Results: How Bad Could it Be?

Voters
33. You may not vote on this poll
  • Dems cave in again, allowing the debt to be used as a political tool

    5 15.15%
  • Landslide election for one side in 2014

    8 24.24%
  • Republican rebellion forces Boehner down

    4 12.12%
  • House impeaches Obama

    4 12.12%
  • Economic slump

    9 27.27%
  • Recession

    12 36.36%
  • Depression

    18 54.55%
  • Civil War

    1 3.03%
  • World War

    0 0%
  • End of USA as we know it

    1 3.03%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: How Bad Could it Be? (Shutdown/Debt Limit)

  1. #51
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    Re: How Bad Could it Be? (Shutdown/Debt Limit)

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    I have been through 17 of these, this being the 18th. Ford 1, Carter 5, 7 Reagan, 1 under Bush the First and 2 under Clinton. These lasted anywhere from 1 to 21 days. All ended up being no big thing. In my opinion there is way too much hyperbole over this one coming from both sides.

    Fact is most Americans are going about their daily business as usual as the government being shutdown isn't effecting them. Now from the political partisan die hards, you think the world has come to an end. If our politicians in Washington would start putting country over party, then perhaps our problems as a nation could get solved. But as long as it is more important to those in D.C. to be Republicans and Democrats instead of Americans, this country will flounder and soon give up its ghost.
    You are sorely mistaken, there has only been one time the Nation approached default and that was under the same Speaker we have now. Default is not the same as Govt. shutdowns. If the debt ceiling is not raised we WILL default on our debt and it will cost us all BILLIONS.
    So much for fiscal conservatives.

  2. #52
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    Re: How Bad Could it Be? (Shutdown/Debt Limit)

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    You are sorely mistaken, there has only been one time the Nation approached default and that was under the same Speaker we have now. Default is not the same as Govt. shutdowns. If the debt ceiling is not raised we WILL default on our debt and it will cost us all BILLIONS.
    So much for fiscal conservatives.
    It is so when one is talking government shut down. I said nothing about the debt ceiling. There is plenty of revenue coming in to service the debt, to pay its interest plus, so if there is a default even without raising the debt ceiling, it will be because of the priority's the treasury secretary or whomever chose to pay first out of the pool of money coming in. this country takes in approximately 2.9 trillion a year, interest on the debt is around 420 billion a year.

    As for government shutdown, the 18th is no better or worse than the other 17. Government shut down were the norm throughout the Carter and Reagan years, 12 in 12 years. No big deal. As far as I know, there has been no negotiations at all on the debt ceiling as everyone has been caught up in the government shutdown.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

  3. #53
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    Re: How Bad Could it Be? (Shutdown/Debt Limit)

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    It is so when one is talking government shut down. I said nothing about the debt ceiling. There is plenty of revenue coming in to service the debt, to pay its interest plus, so if there is a default even without raising the debt ceiling, it will be because of the priority's the treasury secretary or whomever chose to pay first out of the pool of money coming in. this country takes in approximately 2.9 trillion a year, interest on the debt is around 420 billion a year.

    As for government shutdown, the 18th is no better or worse than the other 17. Government shut down were the norm throughout the Carter and Reagan years, 12 in 12 years. No big deal. As far as I know, there has been no negotiations at all on the debt ceiling as everyone has been caught up in the government shutdown.
    This is like a company saying that they will avoid bankruptcy because they'll pay 80% of their debts or a homeowner expecting the lights to stay on because they paid the gas bill.

    It's a completely disillusion position. There is no middle ground here; there is no false equivalence. Going over the debt limit would be catastrophic.

    The cost to finance our debt vs our GDP is near an all time low. The global recession made investors wary, which in turn lowered the return on TBills. Defaulting on ANY portion of our obligations would be equivalent to missing a credit card payment, or skipping your mortgage. Our credit rating will be downgraded. This will dramatically increase the cost to finance the debt, which in turn will further reduce our ability to pay. This will further reduce our credit rating which will further increase the cost to finance our debt.

    See a pattern? Defaulting on the debt is like missing a credit card payment. The rate will explode and suddenly the amount we were paying comfortably just isn't enough. We can afford the debt we have now at the current rates. We CAN'T afford the debt at the rates we'd be forced to pay if we defaulted.

  4. #54
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    Re: How Bad Could it Be? (Shutdown/Debt Limit)

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickieboy View Post
    You left off the 'planet splits to the core' option.

    ...and none of the above
    Yeah, I noticed it too. An entire World entering to war with one another because you choose to shutdown is there though. Close enough maybe?
    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Stats come out and always show life getting better. News makes money in making you think its not.
    The Republic of Dardania is the proper name for: http://www.debatepolitics.com/europe...ification.html

  5. #55
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    Re: How Bad Could it Be? (Shutdown/Debt Limit)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    This is like a company saying that they will avoid bankruptcy because they'll pay 80% of their debts or a homeowner expecting the lights to stay on because they paid the gas bill.

    It's a completely disillusion position. There is no middle ground here; there is no false equivalence. Going over the debt limit would be catastrophic.

    The cost to finance our debt vs our GDP is near an all time low. The global recession made investors wary, which in turn lowered the return on TBills. Defaulting on ANY portion of our obligations would be equivalent to missing a credit card payment, or skipping your mortgage. Our credit rating will be downgraded. This will dramatically increase the cost to finance the debt, which in turn will further reduce our ability to pay. This will further reduce our credit rating which will further increase the cost to finance our debt.

    See a pattern? Defaulting on the debt is like missing a credit card payment. The rate will explode and suddenly the amount we were paying comfortably just isn't enough. We can afford the debt we have now at the current rates. We CAN'T afford the debt at the rates we'd be forced to pay if we defaulted.
    Oh I understand, but there still is plenty of money coming in to avoid the default if the service on the debt is paid first. In other words, make the credit card payment before buying another widescreen TV.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

  6. #56
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    Re: How Bad Could it Be? (Shutdown/Debt Limit)

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    Oh I understand, but there still is plenty of money coming in to avoid the default if the service on the debt is paid first. In other words, make the credit card payment before buying another widescreen TV.
    Budget: Pays for things we will buy.
    Debt Limit: Pays for things that we've ALREADY bought.

    Making the credit card payment is exactly akin to raising the debt limit.

  7. #57
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    Re: How Bad Could it Be? (Shutdown/Debt Limit)

    Quote Originally Posted by aberrant85 View Post
    The scary thing is, when you put it that way, is that it would seem that there are tea party members who would think that other countries not lending us money would be a good thing because then we wouldn't take on so much debt. That would trump the grievous effect on the economy in their eyes.
    Yeah, it's no joke. I seriously wonder if we should even have a "debt limit."

    I have no problem with tea party people with the exception that they are unrealistic in their world view. The picture is bigger than they realize. This is also the problem with a lot of libertarian views, though I like some of them.

  8. #58
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    Re: How Bad Could it Be? (Shutdown/Debt Limit)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    Budget: Pays for things we will buy.
    Debt Limit: Pays for things that we've ALREADY bought.

    Making the credit card payment is exactly akin to raising the debt limit.
    No, if I make 100 dollars a month and I have a credit bill of 20, I just make sure I pay the 20. the 20 can be linked to the interest and service on the debt. It doesn't matter if I owe a million dollars to the credit card company, as long as I pay the minimum amount, 20 dollars in my case above, there is no default.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

  9. #59
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    Re: How Bad Could it Be? (Shutdown/Debt Limit)

    Quote Originally Posted by Carjosse View Post
    I really want to see this calculation where you get 54 from, all the provinces spend vastly different amounts on healthcare and then you have account for the different types of equalization then the different tax levels within each province. If you want to go for per capita spent on healthcare we still blow you out of the water:
    My associates check stubs, it is really sad, I pity them

  10. #60
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    Re: How Bad Could it Be? (Shutdown/Debt Limit)

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocketman View Post
    My associates check stubs, it is really sad, I pity them
    The last I saw a check stub it didn't tell me what the tax dollars are spent on.

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