View Poll Results: How Bad Could it Be?

Voters
33. You may not vote on this poll
  • Dems cave in again, allowing the debt to be used as a political tool

    5 15.15%
  • Landslide election for one side in 2014

    8 24.24%
  • Republican rebellion forces Boehner down

    4 12.12%
  • House impeaches Obama

    4 12.12%
  • Economic slump

    9 27.27%
  • Recession

    12 36.36%
  • Depression

    18 54.55%
  • Civil War

    1 3.03%
  • World War

    0 0%
  • End of USA as we know it

    1 3.03%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: How Bad Could it Be? (Shutdown/Debt Limit)

  1. #41
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    Re: How Bad Could it Be? (Shutdown/Debt Limit)

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    there is simply no way that the Republicans would agree to eliminate the debt ceiling in exchange for the medical device tax. the repeal of that tax is barely going to even get the government open again.

    what needs to happen is that we keep a ceiling in place, collect enough taxes, and prioritize spending so that we don't hit the new ceiling. that would going to require a wipeout of an election, though.
    But spending is based on the budget and CRs; the debt ceiling is just tacked on to pay for those approved expenditures. Why even have it when it can cause such a crisis and be so unimportant?

    It's like the government's appendix. Just remove it and it'll never bother you again.
    "Obamacare delenda est"

  2. #42
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    Re: How Bad Could it Be? (Shutdown/Debt Limit)

    Quote Originally Posted by aberrant85 View Post
    But spending is based on the budget and CRs; the debt ceiling is just tacked on to pay for those approved expenditures. Why even have it when it can cause such a crisis and be so unimportant?

    It's like the government's appendix. Just remove it and it'll never bother you again.
    because the credit card has to have a limit. the point is that we should be collecting enough revenue that we shouldn't even approach that limit. we've tried the low rates / trickle down nonsense for long enough. it doesn't work.

  3. #43
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    Re: How Bad Could it Be? (Shutdown/Debt Limit)

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocketman View Post
    they do, I work for a global company and our associates in Montreal and Vancouver hate the healthcare system there and being forced to give up so much of their income for it.
    You still need to provide evidence, I highly doubt they actually say that and even if they do they are in an extreme minority. We have a better healthcare system than the U.S. because of one simple fact people can actually get the care they need and it does not cause thousands to go into bankruptcy because of it. Our system is also cheaper than the U.S. system with the cost of procedures being far lower than the U.S.. I also forgot to mention less bureaucracy.
    Last edited by Carjosse; 10-07-13 at 04:21 PM.

  4. #44
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    Re: How Bad Could it Be? (Shutdown/Debt Limit)

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    because the credit card has to have a limit. the point is that we should be collecting enough revenue that we shouldn't even approach that limit. we've tried the low rates / trickle down nonsense for long enough. it doesn't work.
    The debt ceiling isn't a credit card limit for debt though:


    Cut to 2:17 if you do not want to watch the whole video.

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    Re: How Bad Could it Be? (Shutdown/Debt Limit)

    Quote Originally Posted by Carjosse View Post
    You still need to provide evidence, I highly doubt they actually say that and even if they do they are in an extreme minority. We have a better healthcare system than the U.S. because of one simple fact people can actually get the care they need and it does not cause thousands to go into bankruptcy because of it. Our system is also cheaper than the U.S. system with the cost of procedures being far lower than the U.S.. I also forgot to mention less bureaucracy.
    52 -54 cents of every dollar is ****ing ridiculous. I am surprised there hasn't been a civil war there, oh yeah, people there like being treated like cattle.

  6. #46
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    Re: How Bad Could it Be? (Shutdown/Debt Limit)

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocketman View Post
    52 -54 cents of every dollar is ****ing ridiculous. I am surprised there hasn't been a civil war there, oh yeah, people there like being treated like cattle.
    It's more like 38 but it it still less than American spending on healthcare. We also have functioning government which is not controlled by two parties and mass bureaucracy.
    Last edited by Carjosse; 10-08-13 at 12:28 AM.

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    Re: How Bad Could it Be? (Shutdown/Debt Limit)

    Quote Originally Posted by Carjosse View Post
    It's more like 38 but it it still less than American spending on healthcare. We also have functioning government which is not controlled by two parties and mass bureaucracy.
    No it is 52-54 for someone making in excess of 100k, I have seen the deduction

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    Re: How Bad Could it Be? (Shutdown/Debt Limit)

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocketman View Post
    No it is 52-54 for someone making in excess of 100k, I have seen the deduction
    I really want to see this calculation where you get 54 from, all the provinces spend vastly different amounts on healthcare and then you have account for the different types of equalization then the different tax levels within each province. If you want to go for per capita spent on healthcare we still blow you out of the water:
    Last edited by Carjosse; 10-08-13 at 01:26 AM.

  9. #49
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    Re: How Bad Could it Be? (Shutdown/Debt Limit)

    Quote Originally Posted by aberrant85 View Post
    Given the trajectory our country is, I ask you: what is the worst possible development that could happen in the event that either the country defaults on its debt or President Obama unilaterally lifts the debt limit?

    Keep in mind, the former is warned to create an economic crisis, the latter a constitutional crisis.
    If Obama did that, then there would indeed be a constitutional crisis, but that would turn into a fight of who labeled it, branded it, and marketed the argument best to the American people. I'm not so sure that it would create ripples within the fabric of our democracy because the executive has slowly been going that way for 50-80 years...whether you think it's right or wrong is a different story.

    If we "defaulted", that would be a much bigger deal with consequences most people can't actually comprehend because the effects would be felt for a long long time. Our credit rating would go down, I think that's a certainty. Countries would think twice before lending to us. The Chinese would have a better argument to make the Renminbi the premier reserve currency (probably not now, but over time). The dollar would crash instantaneously in the FOREX. The international financial community would literally be shaking their heads and wondering if they should laugh or cry...or maybe both simultaneously. It really would not be good for our country in any way.

    That is not to say raising it shouldn't be negotiated over, but there is a point when you have to say screw it and raise the damn thing. I'm pretty sure the Republicans know this...I hope.

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    Re: How Bad Could it Be? (Shutdown/Debt Limit)

    Quote Originally Posted by SBu View Post
    If Obama did that, then there would indeed be a constitutional crisis, but that would turn into a fight of who labeled it, branded it, and marketed the argument best to the American people. I'm not so sure that it would create ripples within the fabric of our democracy because the executive has slowly been going that way for 50-80 years...whether you think it's right or wrong is a different story.

    If we "defaulted", that would be a much bigger deal with consequences most people can't actually comprehend because the effects would be felt for a long long time. Our credit rating would go down, I think that's a certainty. Countries would think twice before lending to us. The Chinese would have a better argument to make the Renminbi the premier reserve currency (probably not now, but over time). The dollar would crash instantaneously in the FOREX. The international financial community would literally be shaking their heads and wondering if they should laugh or cry...or maybe both simultaneously. It really would not be good for our country in any way.

    That is not to say raising it shouldn't be negotiated over, but there is a point when you have to say screw it and raise the damn thing. I'm pretty sure the Republicans know this...I hope.
    The scary thing is, when you put it that way, is that it would seem that there are tea party members who would think that other countries not lending us money would be a good thing because then we wouldn't take on so much debt. That would trump the grievous effect on the economy in their eyes.
    "Obamacare delenda est"

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