View Poll Results: Is the Supreme Court being the Ultimate Arbiter of Constituionality a Problem?

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  • The Supreme Court is not the ultimate arbiter of constitutionality

    6 17.65%
  • The supreme court is the ultimate arbiter and there are no problems with that

    5 14.71%
  • The supreme court is the ultimate arbiter and there are problems but it is the best system possible

    14 41.18%
  • the SCOTUS is the ultimate arbiter its a problem, but there are ways to improve (explain)

    8 23.53%
  • Other/Don't Know

    1 2.94%
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Thread: Supreme Court as the Ultimate Arbiter?

  1. #21
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    Re: Supreme Court as the Ultimate Arbiter?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Interesting question. To my mind, some one has to be the final arbiter, and no one is more qualified that the Supreme Court. Since the court can and has reversed itself, I think it works satisfactorily. Is it the best possible system? Probably not, though I cannot think of one better. Are there potential problems? Of course, nothing is perfect. Does it do well enough? Yeah, I think so. I will however think some more on this since it is an interesting question.
    That's pretty much what I came up with.
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    Re: Supreme Court as the Ultimate Arbiter?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    I don't think criminal penalties for simply being wrong is an answer.
    “Being wrong” is one thing. Enacting, enforcing, or upholding a law that overtly violates the Constitution is entirely another. Yes, I absolutely think that there need to be severe criminal penalties for the latter.
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  3. #23
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    Re: Supreme Court as the Ultimate Arbiter?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock View Post
    “Being wrong” is one thing. Enacting, enforcing, or upholding a law that overtly violates the Constitution is entirely another. Yes, I absolutely think that there need to be severe criminal penalties for the latter.
    That's nonsense.

    Who determines what constitutes an "overt violation"?
    Freedom of speech is not freedom from criticism.

  4. #24
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    Re: Supreme Court as the Ultimate Arbiter?

    Quote Originally Posted by aberrant85 View Post
    I don't know how it was intended to work, besides the obvious: as part of the checks and balances built into our government. It now functions to determine whether or not laws that congress passes or lower court rulings are constitutional. Of course congress always has the power to amend the constitution with the states.

    This use for the Court depends entirely upon their objective analysis of the cases that come before them. You hit the nail on the head when you point out that the endless 5-4 rulings of late are entirely political, based on which seats were vacant under which presidents. The life-long tenures were supposed to isolate the justices from politics, but instead they have become simply an extension of past executive branch administrations that can persist for decades, ruling on cases far into the future based on ideologies carefully selected in another time. Both parties are now in an arms race to fill each vacancy that they can with like-minded justices, lest their successors do.
    Despite that race to fill vacancies, niether side has gotten an overwhelming majority, and a surprising number of times one or more judges surprises you by how they rule. Best example recently would be the ACA ruling. I would also point out that the rulings tend to be ideological, not political in nature.

    I've wondered, if the Supreme Court is meant to be the ultimate arbiter of what is constitutional, how about this: Deep Blue and Watson have mastered chess and Jeopardy. Would we be comfortable arguing Supreme Court cases before a supercomputer that could objectively give unbiased confirmation or rejection of a case's constitutionality? I'm not joking, that seems to be the only authentic way of determining the truth in these hyper-partisan times.

    If not, then I think the lifetime tenures have to go.
    A computer is only as good, and as impartial, as it's programmer. Find me an unbiased programming team. Good luck with that.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

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  5. #25
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    Re: Supreme Court as the Ultimate Arbiter?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Don't take this wrong, but that is a really really bad argument.
    Of course it is; it was intentionally so. But according to the actual words on paper, I'm right.

    The right to USE said weapons is implicit with the right to BEAR them. But "implicit" is not the same as "ironclad," and the advocates of criminal penalties for Constitutional violations are blurring the lines between the two.
    Freedom of speech is not freedom from criticism.

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    Re: Supreme Court as the Ultimate Arbiter?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock View Post
    Surely the Supreme Court, as it currently stands, is no less corrupt than Congress or the President. What checks and balances do we have against the Supreme Court?
    That's a good point, and there really are no checks or balances against the court. I'll fully grant that.
    Freedom of speech is not freedom from criticism.

  7. #27
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    Re: Supreme Court as the Ultimate Arbiter?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock View Post
    “Being wrong” is one thing. Enacting, enforcing, or upholding a law that overtly violates the Constitution is entirely another. Yes, I absolutely think that there need to be severe criminal penalties for the latter.
    I'm not sure we should penalize people for believing something is constitutional that's not. Theres no clear body to enforce that besides the judiciary anyway, and you admitted earlier that we have some problems with the Courts determining what's constitutional 100% of the time.
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  8. #28
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    Re: Supreme Court as the Ultimate Arbiter?

    Quote Originally Posted by francois60 View Post
    It's terrible, but not for the reason you mentioned. If it was simply a matter of being wrong, I would agree. But Congressmen knowingly pass laws of dubious constitutionality, and that's a violation of their oath of office.
    …and Presidents sign them into law. And police officers arrest people for violating them. And judges preside over the trials of those thus arrested. And other judges uphold the results of these trials.

    If the system worked, as it was intended, it would be rare for the public servants at even one step along this process to violate the Constitution, and any such attempted violation would be stopped dead at the very next step.
    The five great lies of the Left Wrong:
    We can be Godless and free. • “Social justice” through forced redistribution of wealth. • Silencing religious opinions counts as “diversity”. • Freedom without moral and personal responsibility. • Civilization can survive the intentional undermining of the family.

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    Re: Supreme Court as the Ultimate Arbiter?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    Of course it is; it was intentionally so. But according to the actual words on paper, I'm right.

    The right to USE said weapons is implicit with the right to BEAR them. But "implicit" is not the same as "ironclad," and the advocates of criminal penalties for Constitutional violations are blurring the lines between the two.
    Do you realize that multiple papers have been written analyzing the phrase "bear arms" in historical context and that the meaning might not be as clear cut as you think?
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

  10. #30
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    Re: Supreme Court as the Ultimate Arbiter?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anagram View Post
    I'm not sure we should penalize people for believing something is constitutional that's not. Theres no clear body to enforce that besides the judiciary anyway, and you admitted earlier that we have some problems with the Courts determining what's constitutional 100% of the time.
    Precisely this. In order to make those kind of calls, we need an arbiter.
    Freedom of speech is not freedom from criticism.

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