View Poll Results: Who is at fault for the shutdown?

Voters
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  • Republicans

    125 48.08%
  • Democrats

    53 20.38%
  • Both

    73 28.08%
  • Neither

    9 3.46%
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Thread: Who do you hold at fault for the Govt shutdown?

  1. #71
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    Re: Who do you hold at fault for the Govt shutdown?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    the republicans have opposed health care reform of any kind, ever since obama made the goal of health care reform his administrations top priority in his first term.
    They are anti-Obama. It doesn't matter what he does. They will obstruct anything he supports.
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    Re: Who do you hold at fault for the Govt shutdown?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    the republicans have opposed health care reform of any kind, ever since obama made the goal of health care reform his administrations top priority in his first term.
    That could be because the only form of health care discussed was distinctly liberal, and when it came down to it, the GOP was shut out of the legislation. Surely you remember that. I do. Many of us believed at the time that the proposal was so sweeping in magnitude it deserved an open and bipartisan discussion before enacting anything. As it transpired, it was anything but that.

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    Re: Who do you hold at fault for the Govt shutdown?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    the republicans have opposed health care reform of any kind, ever since obama made the goal of health care reform his administrations top priority in his first term.
    That's, actually, patently false. Do some reading.
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  4. #74
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    Re: Who do you hold at fault for the Govt shutdown?

    Quote Originally Posted by humbolt View Post
    That could be because the only form of health care discussed was distinctly liberal, and when it came down to it, the GOP was shut out of the legislation. Surely you remember that. I do. Many of us believed at the time that the proposal was so sweeping in magnitude it deserved an open and bipartisan discussion before enacting anything. As it transpired, it was anything but that.
    i don't think the republicans would have gotten 160 ammendments into the bill if they were supposedly locked out of negotiation's

    Timeline of the health care law - CNN.com

    July 15, 2009 -- The Senate's Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee passes The Affordable Health Choices Act. The bipartisan bill includes more than 160 Republican amendments accepted during the month-long mark-up, one of the longest in congressional history.

  5. #75
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    Re: Who do you hold at fault for the Govt shutdown?

    Quote Originally Posted by humbolt View Post
    That could be because the only form of health care discussed was distinctly liberal, and when it came down to it, the GOP was shut out of the legislation. Surely you remember that. I do. Many of us believed at the time that the proposal was so sweeping in magnitude it deserved an open and bipartisan discussion before enacting anything. As it transpired, it was anything but that.
    You remember strangely. I remember a health care plan that was invented by the extreme liberals at the Heritage foundation and first implemented by the extreme liberal who the Republicans nominated in 2012.

    I remember health care being a principle point of debate in the 08 election.
    The 2008 Presidential Candidates' Health Reform Proposals: Choices for America - The Commonwealth Fund

    McCain would change the tax code to encourage people to buy coverage through the individual insurance market and effectively loosen state rules governing the sale of insurance by allowing people to buy policies across state lines. Obama would encourage the continuing participation of employers in the health insurance system, expand eligibility for Medicaid and the State Children's Health Insurance Program (SCHIP), and create a new insurance market "exchange"—with consumer protections, choice of public and private health plans, and income-based premium subsidies—that would largely replace the individual market.

    Obama won the 08 election and implemented a more conservative version of his plan in the hopes of bringing on some Republican support. However, the GOP leadership decided that supporting anything Obama did would all but ensure a second term victory, so they made the political calculation to be obstructionists.

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    Re: Who do you hold at fault for the Govt shutdown?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    i don't think the republicans would have gotten 160 ammendments into the bill if they were supposedly locked out of negotiation's

    Timeline of the health care law - CNN.com
    So you weren't paying attention then. C-SPAN Demands Democrats Open Secret Health Reform Talks - Doug Heye (usnews.com)

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    Re: Who do you hold at fault for the Govt shutdown?

    I hate closed polls. No way to tell how many valid votes there actually were.

    It was BOTH parties fault for the closure. It takes two to agree or disagree in any arguement.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

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    Re: Who do you hold at fault for the Govt shutdown?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    You remember strangely. I remember a health care plan that was invented by the extreme liberals at the Heritage foundation and first implemented by the extreme liberal who the Republicans nominated in 2012.

    I remember health care being a principle point of debate in the 08 election.
    The 2008 Presidential Candidates' Health Reform Proposals: Choices for America - The Commonwealth Fund

    McCain would change the tax code to encourage people to buy coverage through the individual insurance market and effectively loosen state rules governing the sale of insurance by allowing people to buy policies across state lines. Obama would encourage the continuing participation of employers in the health insurance system, expand eligibility for Medicaid and the State Children's Health Insurance Program (SCHIP), and create a new insurance market "exchange"—with consumer protections, choice of public and private health plans, and income-based premium subsidies—that would largely replace the individual market.

    Obama won the 08 election and implemented a more conservative version of his plan in the hopes of bringing on some Republican support. However, the GOP leadership decided that supporting anything Obama did would all but ensure a second term victory, so they made the political calculation to be obstructionists.
    My memory is just fine. I understand that I should believe your spin and not my lying eyes, but I think I'll stick to what I witnessed, anyway. The PPACA is a mess, and many of us knew it would be. With that in mind we are now supposed to believe that it was a joint effort by both the left and the right and that the Heritage Foundation dreamed the whole thing up in the first place. The element of truth in that is so small as to not be worthy of consideration. This is largely the result of the GOP offering weak presidential candidates in two elections, so their failure has become a significant one when the consequences are considered. With the normal budget process turned on its head now, there's little wonder we reach such impasses. It has become an all or nothing game, which is exactly what the democrats have desired for the past five years. They engineered it, and it's theirs to own.

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    Re: Who do you hold at fault for the Govt shutdown?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    i don't think the republicans would have gotten 160 ammendments into the bill if they were supposedly locked out of negotiation's

    Timeline of the health care law - CNN.com
    How many overall amendments were accepted into the bill? How many were Democrat?

    Don't you find that bit of information curiously absent from CNN's Timeline?

  10. #80
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    Re: Who do you hold at fault for the Govt shutdown?

    Both.
    -The Tea Party is doing what their constituents voted them in to do. However, I think their constituents would agree that they have taken it far enough. I am one and I would say they've gone far enough. There are other battles to fight and they could gain much more ground by presenting a bill that attaches every provision they want, minus the delay/defunding of the ACA. The Dems couldn't turn that down. The TP would simply have to go public stating they have agreed to dropping the ACA defunding/delay and the Senate is still saying no. That would put an enormous amount of pressure on the Senate. Most of the American people don't care about all of the other stuff the TP is attaching.

    - The Dems could at least come to the table, say they would agree to a bill with half of the provisions the TP is presenting, and keep their hardline of no cuts/delay to Obamacare. I think that would get the ball rolling. Instead, they play the "we want a clean bill" crap. The House isn't giving them that. No way at this point. Both parties have gone past the point of no return on this thing.

    Both parties could come more to the middle at this point. The points have been made. The House needs to realize they aren't getting anything out of Obamacare. Give it up. The Dems need to realize they aren't getting a clean bill. There is a middle ground there. We all see it. Apparently they can't/
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
    Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty. – Thomas Jefferson

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