View Poll Results: Who is at fault for the shutdown?

Voters
260. You may not vote on this poll
  • Republicans

    125 48.08%
  • Democrats

    53 20.38%
  • Both

    73 28.08%
  • Neither

    9 3.46%
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Thread: Who do you hold at fault for the Govt shutdown?

  1. #501
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    Re: Who do you hold at fault for the Govt shutdown?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbuti View Post
    Who's talking about civilian law enforcement? We're talking about squashing a revolution.
    do be part of the squashers if it comes to that.



  2. #502
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    Re: Who do you hold at fault for the Govt shutdown?

    Quote Originally Posted by Diogenes View Post
    There. I fixed it. Republicans are perfectly willing to fund the government. It is the Dems who are throwing a tantrum and holding the nation hostage until they get their new pet entitlement funded. Have you ever seen the movie Blazing Saddles? In particular the part where Cleavon Little's character, faced with an unruly mob, places one forearm across his throat and with the other hand he holds a gun to his own temple; he then announces, "One wrong move and the nigger gets it!" and backs away to safety - just like the Dems are doing now.
    Do you not understand that Obamacare is the law?
    It is moving ahead just fine. The only holdups it has are due to so many people visiting the exchange websites.
    Republicans are using the funding bill to attach an unrelated attack on Obamacare.
    It is as stupid as Republicans attaching a provision that all millionaires get a million dollar tax refund instead of paying tax. It is unrelated to the bill. It stands zero chance of passing.

  3. #503
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    Re: Who do you hold at fault for the Govt shutdown?

    Quote Originally Posted by americanwoman View Post
    Yes I can - I actually do pay for my own and for my family, why do you think I don't? Because I am for healthcare reform?

    I don't know about you but I don't really like it when a 5 year old child with cancer is denied coverage and treatment by a company that pays it's CEO millions upon millions of dollars. Something is kinda wrong with that picture. You might be with the let the baby die, the ceo earns his money blah blah blah crowd but I prefer to have a heart.


    edit: oh and as a healthy in-shape non tobacco young woman, I am probably paying more than my fair share for those who aren't so lucky healthwise and I could care less.
    All that betrays that you don't get the concept of insurance in the first place.

  4. #504
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    Re: Who do you hold at fault for the Govt shutdown?

    Quote Originally Posted by Painter View Post
    Do you not understand that Obamacare is the law?
    It is moving ahead just fine. The only holdups it has are due to so many people visiting the exchange websites.
    Republicans are using the funding bill to attach an unrelated attack on Obamacare.
    It is as stupid as Republicans attaching a provision that all millionaires get a million dollar tax refund instead of paying tax. It is unrelated to the bill. It stands zero chance of passing.
    Wow. It's only moving along "just fine" because anyone the dems are interested in serving has been given exemption from Obamacare. The rest of us can just go suck rope.

    And really, I'm sure there's a government studies class you can take at your local community college. This is how legislation has worked since the beginning. Poison pills, unrelated legislation, pork, virtually any sort of amendment, related and non, are attached to bills and budgets.

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    Re: Who do you hold at fault for the Govt shutdown?

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Wow. It's only moving along "just fine" because anyone the dems are interested in serving has been given exemption from Obamacare. The rest of us can just go suck rope.

    And really, I'm sure there's a government studies class you can take at your local community college. This is how legislation has worked since the beginning. Poison pills, unrelated legislation, pork, virtually any sort of amendment, related and non, are attached to bills and budgets.
    Really?
    Can you give one example of one party shutting down the government and threatening to end American greatness and cause a global super depression in order to go after an existing LAW that has nothing to do with the item being voted on?
    I bet you can't give one example, not to mention prove it is business as normal.

  6. #506
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    Re: Who do you hold at fault for the Govt shutdown?

    Quote Originally Posted by Painter View Post
    Do you not understand that Obamacare is the law?
    It is moving ahead just fine. The only holdups it has are due to so many people visiting the exchange websites.
    Republicans are using the funding bill to attach an unrelated attack on Obamacare.
    It is as stupid as Republicans attaching a provision that all millionaires get a million dollar tax refund instead of paying tax. It is unrelated to the bill. It stands zero chance of passing.
    Certainly I understand that ACA is the law, but the variation of that law that we know as Obamacare - the variation with all the illegal waivers made by imperial mandate - is not the law. Further, do you not understand that the rollout of the exchanges is a monster cluster****, which some kinder and gentler souls describe as a mere train wreck? It is absolutely the right thing to do to at least delay this botched implementation until the government can get it right.
    "We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress & the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution, but overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution."
    - Abraham Lincoln

  7. #507
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    Re: Who do you hold at fault for the Govt shutdown?

    Quote Originally Posted by Painter View Post
    Really?
    Can you give one example of one party shutting down the government and threatening to end American greatness and cause a global super depression in order to go after an existing LAW that has nothing to do with the item being voted on?
    I bet you can't give one example, not to mention prove it is business as normal.
    First, knock off the false Chicken Little routine. The sky isn't falling. But to answer your question, virtually all legislation ever passed contains riders of some sort, usually totally unrelated to the central issue of the bill. But go here:
    Government shutdown in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    and you'll find numerous examples of what you are asking.

  8. #508
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    Re: Who do you hold at fault for the Govt shutdown?

    You should really do your research about your 'facts'.

    http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...alth-care-law/
    "5. Congress is exempt from Obamacare. False.

    Chain email, Jan. 6, 2013

    Even a few sitting lawmakers have repeated this claim, but it’s not true. Congress is not exempt from Obamacare. Like everyone else, lawmakers are required to have health insurance. They’re also required to buy insurance through the marketplaces. The idea is to have lawmakers and their staff buy insurance the same way their uninsured constituents would so they understand what their constituents have to deal with. Most Americans who already get insurance through work are left alone under the law; members of Congress have insurance through work but are treated differently in this regard. Recently, a rule was added so that lawmakers’ could keep the traditional employer contribution to their coverage. But they weren’t exempt from requirements that other Americans face. We rated this claim False."

    http://www.factcheck.org/2013/05/con...rom-obamacare/
    "An Old Falsehood

    Bogus claims about Congress being “exempt” date back to early 2010, when different health care bills were still being debated. Some Republicans claimed that Americans, except for members of Congress, would be forced into the government-run “public option” (which wasn’t part of the final bill that became law) or state-based exchanges (which are part of the law).

    As we said previously, members of Congress get private health insurance through the Federal Employees Health Benefits Program, which actually served as a model for the exchanges. Federal workers pick from among many health plans. The exchanges would operate in the same way — like a marketplace for those shopping for private insurance.

    But some Republicans pushed the idea that if the exchanges were good enough for other Americans, they should be good enough for Congress. So, an amendment by Republican Sen. Chuck Grassley of Iowa was added to the Senate bill requiring that the federal government offer only health plans that were part of an exchange to members of Congress and their staffs. The law’s final language on this, written by Sen. Tom Coburn, says that: “the only health plans that the Federal Government may make available to Members of Congress and congressional staff with respect to their service as a Member of Congress or congressional staff shall be health plans that are — (I) created under this Act (or an amendment made by this Act); or (II) offered through an Exchange established under this Act.”

    Congressional “staff” is defined as “all full-time and part-time employees employed by the official office of a Member of Congress, whether in Washington, DC or outside of Washington, DC.” As we reported before, Coburn said the provision wouldn’t apply to those working for committees or leadership staff, and a Congressional Research Service report agreed that could be the case.

    In other words, the Affordable Care Act places on lawmakers and their staffs additional requirements that don’t pertain to other Americans with work-based insurance."

    Or even Forbes:
    Congress Exempted From Obamacare? - Forbes
    "So, here’s the real deal –As things currently stand, Members of Congress and their staff, until 2014, will continue to participate in the Federal Employees Health Benefits Program (FEHBP). This program, considered among the best in the nation, allows federal employees- including Members of Congress and their staff- to choose from a wide range of health plans and select the one that best suits their needs. Note that the current plan is neither ‘government’ insurance, ‘free’ insurance nor any other sort of sweet deal that the public has been led to believe is the case. The federal employee’s program involves private insurance policies with premiums, deductibles, co-pays, etc.

    Here’s the surprise – come 2014, when the lion’s share of the ACA provisions come on line, Members of Congress and their staff will be required to buy their health insurance on an exchange. In fact, their choices will be even more limited than our own. While it is expected that some 24 million people will elect to purchase their health care policy on a state run exchange, we are not required by law to do so. Members of Congress and their staff, however, must buy their insurance in this way."


    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Wow. It's only moving along "just fine" because anyone the dems are interested in serving has been given exemption from Obamacare. The rest of us can just go suck rope.

    And really, I'm sure there's a government studies class you can take at your local community college. This is how legislation has worked since the beginning. Poison pills, unrelated legislation, pork, virtually any sort of amendment, related and non, are attached to bills and budgets.

  9. #509
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    Re: Who do you hold at fault for the Govt shutdown?

    In regards to the original poll, I think this poll says a whole lot. Look at that approval falling off the table!

    Republican Party Favorability Sinks to Record Low

    From the page:

    Republican Party Favorability Sinks to Record Low
    Falls 10 percentage points from September's 38%


    WASHINGTON, D.C. -- With the Republican-controlled House of Representatives engaged in a tense, government-shuttering budgetary standoff against a Democratic president and Senate, the Republican Party is now viewed favorably by 28% of Americans, down from 38% in September. This is the lowest favorable rating measured for either party since Gallup began asking this question in 1992.

  10. #510
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    Re: Who do you hold at fault for the Govt shutdown?

    Quote Originally Posted by Diogenes View Post
    Certainly I understand that ACA is the law, but the variation of that law that we know as Obamacare - the variation with all the illegal waivers made by imperial mandate - is not the law. Further, do you not understand that the rollout of the exchanges is a monster cluster****, which some kinder and gentler souls describe as a mere train wreck? It is absolutely the right thing to do to at least delay this botched implementation until the government can get it right.
    What exactly about it is even a mere train wreck? I got laid off last month from a fortune 100 after 11 years along with everyone on my contract. I went to look at the insurance websites after my new companies insurance rates were $340 per week for a family of four (medical only). I was able to get better coverage on the internet prior to the exchange at $219.23 for equivalent coverage. My cobra just kicked in so I will continue through the year. But I signed up for the exchange on the first day and got an equivalent rate quote of $148.15 per week for a family of four for the same coverage.

    Yes I had to wait quite a while that first day in a queue, and it kicked me out once with an error. But it was well worth it to save from my new company $340 per week to $148 per week. Yes my new company is a small business and they pass on 100% to employees. And for the record my Aetna premiums increased double digit % every year since 2003, except 2005 when I had a large drop in coverage amounts and huge increase in deductible....and that was a 9.8% increase that year along with the simultaneous reduction in benefits. All well before O-care.

    And that is real facts. Not media or partisan spin.

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