View Poll Results: Who is at fault for the shutdown?

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  • Republicans

    125 48.08%
  • Democrats

    53 20.38%
  • Both

    73 28.08%
  • Neither

    9 3.46%
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Thread: Who do you hold at fault for the Govt shutdown?

  1. #161
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    Re: Who do you hold at fault for the Govt shutdown?

    I'm not sure. It's either Republicrats or Demoblicans.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
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    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

  2. #162
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    Re: Who do you hold at fault for the Govt shutdown?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    Perhaps WH intransigence drove the Repubs to the view that they could not get a hearing without doing something extraordinary? Dem political malpractice helped bring this about.
    They don't have the votes for repeal. They are defeated for the time being, and need to accept it.

    I added a key thought to my post above and am pleased to repeat it:

    Using such sabotage as a lever is a framework for governance that will simply not work. What if both sides used it as a lever whenever they disagreed? Absolutely ridiculous to blame both sides every time one side decides to use it.
    You can never be safe from a government that can keep you completely safe from each other and the world. You must choose.

  3. #163
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    Re: Who do you hold at fault for the Govt shutdown?

    I believe there is enough blame for both parties.
    "God Bless Our Troops in Harms Way."

  4. #164
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    Re: Who do you hold at fault for the Govt shutdown?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dezaad View Post
    They don't have the votes for repeal. They are defeated for the time being, and need to accept it.

    I added a key thought to my post above and am pleased to repeat it:

    Using such sabotage as a lever is a framework for governance that will simply not work. What if both sides used it as a lever whenever they disagreed? Absolutely ridiculous to blame both sides every time one side decides to use it.
    We'll have to disagree. Repub actions are irresponsible and politically stupid, but the Dems have done much to stoke Repub resentment and diminish communication since 2008.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

  5. #165
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    Re: Who do you hold at fault for the Govt shutdown?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dezaad View Post
    They don't have the votes for repeal. They are defeated for the time being, and need to accept it.

    I added a key thought to my post above and am pleased to repeat it:

    Using such sabotage as a lever is a framework for governance that will simply not work. What if both sides used it as a lever whenever they disagreed? Absolutely ridiculous to blame both sides every time one side decides to use it.
    Accept defeat, or do the legwork to have influence as a minority party.

    Republicans have this psychotic belief that they should never compromise with Democrats when it feeds their base's ego to play tough but that Democrats always need to compromise with Republicans when the common good of the nation is at stake.

    Which adds up to the Republicans never doing or giving anything for Democrats while expecting the Democrats to at least allow them to save face when they're in too deep on divisive issues.

    It's like some kind of nightmare marriage where one spouse causes the most trouble and gets the most deference.
    If you notice something good in yourself, give credit to God, not to yourself, but be certain the evil you commit is always your own and yours to acknowledge.

    St. Benedict

  6. #166
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    Re: Who do you hold at fault for the Govt shutdown?

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    Accept defeat, or do the legwork to have influence as a minority party.

    Republicans have this psychotic belief that they should never compromise with Democrats when it feeds their base's ego to play tough but that Democrats always need to compromise with Republicans when the common good of the nation is at stake.

    Which adds up to the Republicans never doing or giving anything for Democrats while expecting the Democrats to at least allow them to save face when they're in too deep on divisive issues.

    It's like some kind of nightmare marriage where one spouse causes the most trouble and gets the most deference.
    It's a historic dance. Until the 1980's the exact opposite was true.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

  7. #167
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    Re: Who do you hold at fault for the Govt shutdown?

    Quote Originally Posted by Envisioneer View Post
    Everyone is responsible for every harm that happens to society if they do not solve the problems of society....
    While somewhat noble, your standard cannot possibly work.

    1) No matter how much you try to point out similarities, people will sort themselves into groups, and will have conflicts over those interests.
    2) I do not accept responsibility for someone whose ideas and actions are completely different than my own.
    3) It doesn't make sense to suggest that someone in Georgia (and is not a national figure) is responsible for the actions of someone in, say, California.


    That means mostly the american people but also for foreigners who did not try to offer solutions.
    It's not the job of a citizen of Kenya to tell American legislators what to do.


    We should let the house republican representatives' districts to opt out of the law and not have to pay for it or benefit or be harmed by it.
    No, we shouldn't.


    We need a solution everyone likes.
    No such solution exists.

    There are 300 million people in the US. Legislatures almost never reach total consensus. I'm stunned that we all agree that "2+2=4" let alone something as complex as health care reform.

    The simple fact is that like it or not, the decision has been made. The bill was passed into law, it was vetted by the SCOTUS, has survived an absurd number of repeal attempts, and survived an election which was in no small part a referendum on the ACA. It's over.

    The real solution is to get rid of the procedural nonsense which allows a small group (of any political persuasion) to hold the entire government hostage, and for the Republicans to realize that swinging harder to the right is costing them elections.

  8. #168
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    Re: Who do you hold at fault for the Govt shutdown?

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    Yes it is. No law before required an individual to purchase health insurance.
    Switching criteria again, the CONCEPT was not new.



    No, the government making your personal decisions for you is an attack on personal liberty. Without doubt.
    You don't have to purchase anything, your false sense of liberty is still intact, you can still be an irresponsible citizen....if that is what you are arguing for.



    That's incorrect. Children are not on welfare, the parents of said children are.
    Children receive, are counted, are funded via their household, whether it is a parent, guardian.....whatever.

    M
    any of them are employed and have made insanely bad decisions getting them to where they are. Should the government tell them they can't have anymore (or any) kids until they can learn to live responsibly?
    Bait and switch...no sale.



    That's not a tangent, homey.
    Yes, it was, it still is.
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    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
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    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

  9. #169
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    Re: Who do you hold at fault for the Govt shutdown?

    I blame the voters.

  10. #170
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    Re: Who do you hold at fault for the Govt shutdown?

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    ... well, in the United Kingdom and other functional democracies, when you want something from the opposition you have to build credit with the opposition.
    Irrelevant, different system, different laws.

    The Republicans never did that. Furthermore, whenever the Democrats have tried to build credit with Republicans it has been thrown in their face.
    BS. The Republicans have been compromising with Democrats for 5 years.

    There is no imperative for the Democrats to give in on Obamacare.
    And so no Imperative for the Republicans to work with them. The house funds government, and it's run by Republicans.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

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