View Poll Results: Who is at fault for the shutdown?

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  • Republicans

    125 48.08%
  • Democrats

    53 20.38%
  • Both

    73 28.08%
  • Neither

    9 3.46%
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Thread: Who do you hold at fault for the Govt shutdown?

  1. #151
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    Re: Who do you hold at fault for the Govt shutdown?

    Quote Originally Posted by Visbek View Post
    With all due respect, that article is a massive truckload of BS.

    The WSJ called him on it: Heritage Rewrites History - WSJ.com

    Fox recognizes Heritage as the origin of the individual mandate: Individual health care insurance mandate has roots two decades long | Fox News


    Heritage defended Romneycare, including individual mandates, in 2006: Understanding Key Parts of the Massachusetts Health Plan

    And again The Significance of Massachusetts Health Reform
    and again The Massachusetts Approach: A New Way To Restructure State Health Insurance Markets And Public Programs
    and again Massachusetts Health Reform: What the doctor ordered
    Good call.

    The writer of the column is a distinguished fellow at the Heritage foundation...of course he is trying to deflect away.

  2. #152
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    Re: Who do you hold at fault for the Govt shutdown?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Who teaches that healthcare is a human right? No, scratch that. Who teaches that someone else's service/labor is a human right?
    Say you're bleeding out after an auto accident or maybe you have a heart attack while walking down the street. Should we first force you to produce proof that you can pay for help before anyone treats you?

    How exactly are we supposed to determine who has insurance and who doesn't when providing emergency care? That's why we require hospitals and EMTs to treat all patients first, and then worry about getting paid second.

  3. #153
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    Re: Who do you hold at fault for the Govt shutdown?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    Say you're bleeding out after an auto accident or maybe you have a heart attack while walking down the street. Should we first force you to produce proof that you can pay for help before anyone treats you?

    How exactly are we supposed to determine who has insurance and who doesn't when providing emergency care? That's why we require hospitals and EMTs to treat all patients first, and then worry about getting paid second.
    Emergency treatment isn't at the root of Obamacare.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

  4. #154
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    Re: Who do you hold at fault for the Govt shutdown?

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    Who, in your opinion, is primarily at fault for the shutdown?
    Both.Both sides have their prized pig that they do not want to let go of.Democrats do not want to budge an inch on Obama-care and republicans do not want to give an inch on trying to defend Obama-care.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  5. #155
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    Re: Who do you hold at fault for the Govt shutdown?

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    And the Dems refusing anything other than exactly what they want is not unreasonable and childish prickisness?
    ... well, in the United Kingdom and other functional democracies, when you want something from the opposition you have to build credit with the opposition.

    The Republicans never did that. Furthermore, whenever the Democrats have tried to build credit with Republicans it has been thrown in their face.

    Both.Both sides have their prized pig that they do not want to let go of.Democrats do not want to budge an inch on Obama-care and republicans do not want to give an inch on trying to defend Obama-care.
    There is no imperative for the Democrats to give in on Obamacare.
    Last edited by Morality Games; 10-02-13 at 09:42 PM.
    If you notice something good in yourself, give credit to God, not to yourself, but be certain the evil you commit is always your own and yours to acknowledge.

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  6. #156
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    Re: Who do you hold at fault for the Govt shutdown?

    Quote Originally Posted by year2late View Post
    Holy crap, someone else who believes in ER health care.

    Who teaches this crap?
    So long as I am happy to accept the higher costs it imposes on us, what's your problem?
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

  7. #157
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    Re: Who do you hold at fault for the Govt shutdown?

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    No one waited until the last minute...this has been an ongoing battle. Obamacare brings in too many things that are detrimental to the country to just "give it a try" when the main positives of it can be addressed in far simpler means.
    I pretty much agree with this. However, I don't get to shut down the government because I think this. The House has a responsibility to fund the laws on the books. The law can be repealed once the Republicans have enough control to do so.

    The democrats should not compromise. No one should be able to use sabotage of the functioning of government as a lever for any reason. The only way to stop the tactic is to refuse to let it pay off.

    Using such sabotage as a lever is a framework for governance that will simply not work. What if both sides used it as a lever whenever they disagreed? Absolutely ridiculous to blame both sides every time one side decides to use it.
    Last edited by Dezaad; 10-02-13 at 09:56 PM.
    You can never be safe from a government that can keep you completely safe from each other and the world. You must choose.

  8. #158
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    Re: Who do you hold at fault for the Govt shutdown?

    anonymous polls suck



  9. #159
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    Re: Who do you hold at fault for the Govt shutdown?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dezaad View Post
    I pretty much agree with this. However, I don't get to shut down the government because I think this. The House has a responsibility to fund the laws on the books. The law can be repealed once the Republicans have enough control to do so.

    The democrats should not compromise. No one should be able to use sabotage of the functioning of government as a lever for any reason. The only way to stop the tactic is to refuse to let it pay off.
    Perhaps WH intransigence drove the Repubs to the view that they could not get a hearing without doing something extraordinary? Dem political malpractice helped bring this about.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

  10. #160
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    Re: Who do you hold at fault for the Govt shutdown?

    I believe in universal responsibility. Everyone is responsible for every harm that happens to society if they do not solve the problems of society before something bad happens. So everyone is responsible for the shutdown. That means mostly the american people but also for foreigners who did not try to offer solutions. I am at fault for not having come up with a solution that works, but at least I have tried to offer solutions. We should let the house republican representatives' districts to opt out of the law and not have to pay for it or benefit or be harmed by it. We need a solution everyone likes. This would satisfy the republicans and the democrats. Does anyone else want to avoid blame and offer a solution? What do you guys have to say about my solution or other solutions? We need to solve this because we are responsible for this country, some more than others but everyone has the ability to affect change if they choose to so are responsible for whatever society does. We can control and do anything we want to if we dedicate our selves to doing it so we need to dedicate ourselves to solutions. Right?

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