View Poll Results: Who is at fault for the shutdown?

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  • Republicans

    125 48.08%
  • Democrats

    53 20.38%
  • Both

    73 28.08%
  • Neither

    9 3.46%
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Thread: Who do you hold at fault for the Govt shutdown?

  1. #131
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    Re: Who do you hold at fault for the Govt shutdown?

    Quote Originally Posted by Diogenes View Post
    So how am I (or anyone else) being "protected" by being required to buy health policies loaded down with provisions I neither want nor need?
    How are you or anyone else being protected when you buy health insurance?

    Seriously? Is this an adult conversation?
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

  2. #132
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    Re: Who do you hold at fault for the Govt shutdown?

    Quote Originally Posted by humbolt View Post
    No. First I haven't admitted that the ACA is a conservative idea. That's your assertion. I agreed that it was perhaps based on an idea from a conservative think tank - not that it was conservative. I also pointed out that the correspondence between what Heritage proposed and what the ACA actually is, are seriously different. Again, as I mentioned, Romney, though Republican in name, is as much a republican as Nelson Rockefeller was. Hardly conservative, which is why I pointed out in my "jumble of unrelated thoughts" that 4 million conservatives were estimated to have stayed home last November. Now, if you would go back and read the link I posted earlier - something you obviously haven't, or won't - you would understand that I'm stating what has been witnessed by C-Span - that member of the vast right wing conspiracy.
    I see why you're so bothered by liberalism. It's so insidious that even conservative think-tanks come up with liberal ideas. But I think you can see why many people would strongly object to the individual mandate being called a liberal idea.. mostly because it's not.

    But you're right. You made a completely unsubstantiated assertion that the Heritage foundations proposal and the ACA are "seriously" different. What exactly is the difference?

    HF, Romneycare, and ObamaCare are all based on the individual mandate. Romneycare has a bigger penalty for not buying insurance. Romneycare applies to buisnesses with 11 or more employees, Obamacare applies to 50+. Obamacare includes a tax credit for small businesses (Proposed by McCain), Romneycare doesn’t.

    Criticize the ACA to your hearts content. It's far from perfect. However, don't call it liberal.

  3. #133
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    Re: Who do you hold at fault for the Govt shutdown?

    Mostly the Republicans, everyone else to a lesser extent. I don't blame them for their opposition to Obamacare, but this isn't the right way to go about it.
    If you build a man a fire, he'll be warm for a day.

    If you set a man on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

  4. #134
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    Re: Who do you hold at fault for the Govt shutdown?

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    That doesn't make it true.
    Switching criteria? The question was "is it new?" No it is not.

    Forcing people to be financially responsible is an infringement on liberty, and anti-American.
    I have seen this argument that irresponsibility is a liberty.
    This, is a dead end argument



    Financial responsibility, more accurately: lack of it, is a major factor affecting those that draw welfare.
    Most that are on "welfare" are children, the unemployed and the caretakers of said children. This conflating of "welfare" with getting people in into health insurance is rather confused. The ACA extends welfare and supplements those who cannot fully afford insurance. Again, would you rather have expensive ER care that we all have to pay for be the care of last resort....as it has been for decades?


    Are you going to outlaw 20in wheels?
    Good grief, the tangents are amazing.
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

  5. #135
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    Re: Who do you hold at fault for the Govt shutdown?

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    Who, in your opinion, is primarily at fault for the shutdown?
    In equal measure, a weak, timorous POTUS who is inflexible in the way that only the weak are inflexible, and a politically stupid opposition led astray by vainglory and personal ambition.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

  6. #136
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    Re: Who do you hold at fault for the Govt shutdown?

    A certain segment of Republicans who happened to have enough numbers to persuade the leaders of the party to put forth their demands. Most Republicans knew the outcome would be predetermined, as did most Democrats. Nevertheless, the language in the bill was pushed by those Republicans anyway. They hoped they could "negotiate" their way to a settlement, but failed.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

  7. #137
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    Re: Who do you hold at fault for the Govt shutdown?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    How are you or anyone else being protected when you buy health insurance?

    Seriously? Is this an adult conversation?
    (1) I am protected by buying insurance I think I need.
    (2) Point taken, I seriously question the maturity of those who would force me to buy what I don't want or need.
    "We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress & the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution, but overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution."
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  8. #138
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    Re: Who do you hold at fault for the Govt shutdown?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    Criticize the ACA to your hearts content. It's far from perfect. However, don't call it liberal.
    Since the hallmark of ACA is coercion, it is hard to describe it as anything but liberal. Conservatives believe in the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness - everything that liberals are opposed to.
    "We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress & the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution, but overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution."
    - Abraham Lincoln

  9. #139
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    Re: Who do you hold at fault for the Govt shutdown?

    Quote Originally Posted by Diogenes View Post
    (1) I am protected by buying insurance I think I need.
    Well, the thinking part....is the essence of the issue at hand.

    If you think health insurance is not needed, then you go with that.
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

  10. #140
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    Re: Who do you hold at fault for the Govt shutdown?

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    Who, in your opinion, is primarily at fault for the shutdown?


    There wasn't an option for "What shutdown??"

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