View Poll Results: Who is at fault for the shutdown?

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  • Republicans

    125 48.08%
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    53 20.38%
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    73 28.08%
  • Neither

    9 3.46%
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Thread: Who do you hold at fault for the Govt shutdown?

  1. #101
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    Re: Who do you hold at fault for the Govt shutdown?

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    The individual mandate, however sensible, was routinely rejected by Republicans due to it's infringement on personal liberty.
    Funny how the Heritage Foundation/Gingrich/Romney not only endorsed it....but implemented it.

    Say, do you feel the same way about mandated auto insurance?
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

  2. #102
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    Re: Who do you hold at fault for the Govt shutdown?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    This is an excellent example of exactly what is wrong the GOP. I remember reading 1984 for the first time and thinking that this would never work. No one could be so dumb. If you tell people that they're at war with one country, and then suddenly that never happened... well people are going to notice. Apparently that's not true.

    The individual mandate and private exchanges were conservative ideas from a conservative think tank. They were first implemented by a conservative Governor. Those are inescapable facts. The "liberal" position is a single payer system, Medicare for all. This was rejected in 92 and could not gather 60 votes in 2009.

    You *SHOULD* believe your lying eyes, because they're not lying. And I know that on some level you realize this because your response was a jumble of unrelated thoughts. The PPACA is a mess? Weak candidates? The budget? How does any of this relate to how liberal or conservative the ACA is?
    The Heritage Foundation has long since backed away from that proposal, and the current system actually bears little resemblance to the one they originally proposed. I would also note that despite the desperation of those who wish to spread the responsibility for the current mess, Romney was hardly conservative, and governed the most liberal state in the country. Somehow, 4 million conservatives noticed that and stayed home for the 2012 election. I guess you didn't notice that, either. My thoughts are well enough organized that I can manage to see a much larger picture than you apparently can. If you don't think the PPACA is a mess, you just haven't been paying attention or are willfully ignoring what is painfully clear to the majority in the country. Furthermore, if you can't see that policy is directed by those with the most power in government, then exactly who do you think is responsible? The minority?

  3. #103
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    Re: Who do you hold at fault for the Govt shutdown?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    Funny how the Heritage Foundation/Gingrich/Romney not only endorsed it....but implemented it.

    Say, do you feel the same way about mandated auto insurance?
    Auto insurance isn't a federal mandate nor am I required to buy it (I can opt out of having a car or drive on private roadways).

  4. #104
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    Re: Who do you hold at fault for the Govt shutdown?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    I have absolutely no problem with changing the ACA. It needs to be tweaked and we need to have a serious discussion about various aspects. But that discussion has to start with ideas to improve it. And the GOP has a lot of good ideas, but they're unable or unwilling to promote them because that would be seen as an endorsement of Obamacare.
    The only way to change ACA is to turn it into the Heritage version of the program and cut out all the unnecessary mandates, commissions, agencies, etc. In other words, reduce it from it's 2000-page length to one only a little larger than the Medicare bill, which I believe was two pages long.


    Also, the public option had more than 50 votes, (I think it had 54) it just didn't have the 60 required. Granted that's not a full up single payer system, but it would have allowed people to essentially buy medicare instead of a private insurance.
    The public option was a good idea, as long as we're talking about the "weak" version, which had to be funded 100% by premiums and which would have ceased to exist had it failed financially. Competition between public and private sector is good. A rigged game though, in which the taxpayers backstop the public option in case of failure, and/or subsidize it(the "strong" public option) would just be a deceitful way to get to single payer.

  5. #105
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    Re: Who do you hold at fault for the Govt shutdown?

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    Who, in your opinion, is primarily at fault for the shutdown?
    Democrats. No contest. The Republicans are willing to fund the government except for ObamaCare. Democrats are willing to hold the government hostage to their greed.
    "We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress & the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution, but overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution."
    - Abraham Lincoln

  6. #106
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    Re: Who do you hold at fault for the Govt shutdown?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    The Tortuous History of Conservatives and the Individual Mandate - Forbes

    This is a pretty fair read. The individual mandate was always rejected by the libertarian wing of the GOP. However, it was invented/championed by the corporate wing.
    And never made it into the plank.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

  7. #107
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    Re: Who do you hold at fault for the Govt shutdown?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    Funny how the Heritage Foundation/Gingrich/Romney not only endorsed it....but implemented it.

    Say, do you feel the same way about mandated auto insurance?
    Mandated auto insurance is optional...you do not have to own/drive a car.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

  8. #108
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    Re: Who do you hold at fault for the Govt shutdown?

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Auto insurance isn't a federal mandate
    I did not say it was, this is straw and an avoidance of the point.

    nor am I required to buy it (I can opt out of having a car or drive on private roadways).
    Which is the specious equivalent of putting yourself in a coma.

    Listen, it isn't me that made the analogy of mandated auto insurance, Stuart Butler did.
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

  9. #109
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    Re: Who do you hold at fault for the Govt shutdown?

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    Mandated auto insurance is optional...you do not have to own/drive a car.

    Not only that, but it wouldn't be constitutional at the federal level. State legislatures are bound by their own constitutions and the Bill of Rights. The federal government is bound by the much stricter federal Constitution, which allows Congress to only legislate on those subjects which it is authorized to legislate on.

    The interstate commerce clause is the broadest of those, but has limits. Congress cannot create commerce in order to regulate it, nor can it penalize lack of participation in commerce.

  10. #110
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    Re: Who do you hold at fault for the Govt shutdown?

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    Mandated auto insurance is optional...you do not have to own/drive a car.
    Again, the concept of financial responsibility is not new, not unique to Dems or the GOP.
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

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