View Poll Results: Who is at fault for the shutdown?

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  • Republicans

    125 48.08%
  • Democrats

    53 20.38%
  • Both

    73 28.08%
  • Neither

    9 3.46%
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Thread: Who do you hold at fault for the Govt shutdown?

  1. #91
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    Re: Who do you hold at fault for the Govt shutdown?

    Quote Originally Posted by year2late View Post
    It is a cross between blackmail and terrorism.
    Was it also when Democrats did it?
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

  2. #92
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    Re: Who do you hold at fault for the Govt shutdown?

    Quote Originally Posted by humbolt View Post
    My memory is just fine. I understand that I should believe your spin and not my lying eyes, but I think I'll stick to what I witnessed, anyway. The PPACA is a mess, and many of us knew it would be. With that in mind we are now supposed to believe that it was a joint effort by both the left and the right and that the Heritage Foundation dreamed the whole thing up in the first place. The element of truth in that is so small as to not be worthy of consideration. This is largely the result of the GOP offering weak presidential candidates in two elections, so their failure has become a significant one when the consequences are considered. With the normal budget process turned on its head now, there's little wonder we reach such impasses. It has become an all or nothing game, which is exactly what the democrats have desired for the past five years. They engineered it, and it's theirs to own.
    This is an excellent example of exactly what is wrong the GOP. I remember reading 1984 for the first time and thinking that this would never work. No one could be so dumb. If you tell people that they're at war with one country, and then suddenly that never happened... well people are going to notice. Apparently that's not true.

    The individual mandate and private exchanges were conservative ideas from a conservative think tank. They were first implemented by a conservative Governor. Those are inescapable facts. The "liberal" position is a single payer system, Medicare for all. This was rejected in 92 and could not gather 60 votes in 2009.

    You *SHOULD* believe your lying eyes, because they're not lying. And I know that on some level you realize this because your response was a jumble of unrelated thoughts. The PPACA is a mess? Weak candidates? The budget? How does any of this relate to how liberal or conservative the ACA is?

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    Re: Who do you hold at fault for the Govt shutdown?

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    And the Dems refusing anything other than exactly what they want is not unreasonable and childish prickisness?
    Considering the last time they played games our credit rating was downgraded BECAUSE of the game playing, the Republicans.

    Without question.
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
    The Psychology of Persuasion

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    Re: Who do you hold at fault for the Govt shutdown?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    The individual mandate and private exchanges were conservative ideas from a conservative think tank. They were first implemented by a conservative Governor. Those are inescapable facts. The "liberal" position is a single payer system, Medicare for all. This was rejected in 92 and could not gather 60 votes in 2009.
    Actually, I think it didn't even get 30 votes. Single payer is never going to happen because too many people have insurance that is more generous than a single payer system would be. Especially unions. But your larger point is correct, those were conservative ideas. However, notice how long it took you to explain them: a paragraph. The bill is 2000 pages long. It's the basic outline of a conservative program with 2000 pages of liberal gobbledygook. Some of which has already been eliminated for being too stupid to survive reality, such as the CLASS act. The medical device tax will probably go down soon as well.

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    Re: Who do you hold at fault for the Govt shutdown?

    Quote Originally Posted by What if...? View Post
    Considering the last time they played games our credit rating was downgraded BECAUSE of the game playing, the Republicans.

    Without question.
    The debt limit brinksmanship was the trigger, but the root cause was the fact that we can't possibly pay our bills in the medium term. As the Baby Boom retirements accelerate, we get closer and closer to default. Most Western countries face the risk of downgrade and many have already been downgraded, because they established pay-as-you-go programs that relied too heavily on population growth and the population NOT aging.

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    Re: Who do you hold at fault for the Govt shutdown?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    This is an excellent example of exactly what is wrong the GOP. I remember reading 1984 for the first time and thinking that this would never work. No one could be so dumb. If you tell people that they're at war with one country, and then suddenly that never happened... well people are going to notice. Apparently that's not true.

    The individual mandate and private exchanges were conservative ideas from a conservative think tank. They were first implemented by a conservative Governor. Those are inescapable facts. The "liberal" position is a single payer system, Medicare for all. This was rejected in 92 and could not gather 60 votes in 2009.

    You *SHOULD* believe your lying eyes, because they're not lying. And I know that on some level you realize this because your response was a jumble of unrelated thoughts. The PPACA is a mess? Weak candidates? The budget? How does any of this relate to how liberal or conservative the ACA is?
    The individual mandate, however sensible, was routinely rejected by Republicans due to it's infringement on personal liberty.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

  7. #97
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    Re: Who do you hold at fault for the Govt shutdown?

    Quote Originally Posted by francois60 View Post
    The debt limit brinksmanship was the trigger, but the root cause was the fact that we can't possibly pay our bills in the medium term. As the Baby Boom retirements accelerate, we get closer and closer to default. Most Western countries face the risk of downgrade and many have already been downgraded, because they established pay-as-you-go programs that relied too heavily on population growth and the population NOT aging.
    Don't forget..if you go down you will take the rest of the world with you..

    Sigh..Again!!

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    Re: Who do you hold at fault for the Govt shutdown?

    Quote Originally Posted by francois60 View Post
    Actually, I think it didn't even get 30 votes. Single payer is never going to happen because too many people have insurance that is more generous than a single payer system would be. Especially unions. But your larger point is correct, those were conservative ideas. However, notice how long it took you to explain them: a paragraph. The bill is 2000 pages long. It's the basic outline of a conservative program with 2000 pages of liberal gobbledygook. Some of which has already been eliminated for being too stupid to survive reality, such as the CLASS act. The medical device tax will probably go down soon as well.
    I have absolutely no problem with changing the ACA. It needs to be tweaked and we need to have a serious discussion about various aspects. But that discussion has to start with ideas to improve it. And the GOP has a lot of good ideas, but they're unable or unwilling to promote them because that would be seen as an endorsement of Obamacare.

    Also, the public option had more than 50 votes, (I think it had 54) it just didn't have the 60 required. Granted that's not a full up single payer system, but it would have allowed people to essentially buy medicare instead of a private insurance.

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    Re: Who do you hold at fault for the Govt shutdown?

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    Who, in your opinion, is primarily at fault for the shutdown?
    When I see the GOP taking credit for something they have been discussing since 2008, seems to be easy to allow them to take the credit for it.
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

  10. #100
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    Re: Who do you hold at fault for the Govt shutdown?

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    The individual mandate, however sensible, was routinely rejected by Republicans due to it's infringement on personal liberty.
    The Tortuous History of Conservatives and the Individual Mandate - Forbes

    This is a pretty fair read. The individual mandate was always rejected by the libertarian wing of the GOP. However, it was invented/championed by the corporate wing.

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