View Poll Results: See Poll question at top of OP.

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  • Yes

    7 25.00%
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    15 53.57%
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    6 21.43%
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Thread: Do you feel it's wrong for these politicians to be taking this action?

  1. #21
    double secret probation AngryOldGuy's Avatar
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    Re: Do you feel it's wrong for these politicians to be taking this action?

    I believe I addressed this in a moar than adequate manner here
    I'd like to say I'm a gonna follow you round n destroy your arguments butt they are ruined before you type them?

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    Re: Do you feel it's wrong for these politicians to be taking this action?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    QUESTION: If a politician takes a stance that they campaigned heavily on and their constituents favor, should they be attacked for the act of taking the stance and why?
    Not really.Because that is what they campaigned on. Their constituents would be severely pissed if the people they elected did nothing to do what they campaigned on regardless if those efforts are or are not in vain. But one side will always attack the other for opposing what they want.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  3. #23
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    Re: Do you feel it's wrong for these politicians to be taking this action?

    I voted "No", but really it's "No... with a caveat".

    A representative's responsibility is to their constituents... to a point. I don't have an issue with a block of politicians being obstructionist in theory, I'm just not sure the issues being used right now are it.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

  4. #24
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    Re: Do you feel it's wrong for these politicians to be taking this action?

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    I'd be completely behind them if they were trying to tweak the AHA. Or if they were getting "full-time" as relates to the AHA reduced to 20 hours per week. They could be doing many things that would make them look good. A futile attempt to repeal the law or indefinitely delay its implementation is swimming against the tide and a fool's errand.

    These politicians you talk about whose constituents so vigorously oppose the AHA think that way because they've been listening to the Republican mantra that the sky is going to fall. It's simply not true.
    And that, IMO, is what Boehner is doing now.
    Letting those who need to cause enough Mischief to make their constituents happy.
    These are the same constituents who keep wanting to "Take the country back"... from an elected/Re-elected President. (!)

    They lost the original vote on on ACA of Course, and don't have the votes to repeal it now either.
    It was challenged in the UNSC as well and passed muster.

    So What we have then is an Unprecedented and bizarre attempt to take the budget/country hostage on that basis: a passed Law.
    If the Democrats/Prez ever allowed a small minority to be able to change/overturn a law using these tactics, it would be the end of our democracy.
    Are other members on the Right willing to shut the country down over abortion or other traditional tough issues?
    No.
    This is Personal vendetta against a bill called 'Obamacare'. The official Moniker ACA, polls considerably better than the Prez Nickname.
    Most people who are polled, don't eve know what's in it, just it's called Obamacare.
    Six of One - Obamacare vs. The Affordable Care Act - YouTube

    But back to the central OP point. Yes, they can do what they were elected to do, but that doesn't mean even Boehner should humor it. He is doing so for party unity and understanding their position.
    Allowing a Clean Resolution (to fund the govt) to come to the floor would end the protest and show those who support it they are Not a majority and cannot change the law through these tactics.
    These flat-earthers must be made to understand Obama IS the President.. Again.

    I think this will end when the Debt Ceiling issue is conjoined and Democrats make other compromises to the GOP, Not Obamacare.
    That saves face for everyone and gives Boehner some chips in the big game.

    Thanks for the Thoughtful String/OP.
    Who would have thought to look in this section for better discussion?
    Last edited by mbig; 10-02-13 at 05:30 PM.
    I'm personally sick of not being able to dunk a basketball because of racism.
    anon

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    Re: Do you feel it's wrong for these politicians to be taking this action?

    Absolutely, anyone that believes in limited government, low taxation, responsible fiscal policy & personal liberty and responsibility

    is a bad person.

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    Re: Do you feel it's wrong for these politicians to be taking this action?

    These flat-earthers must be made to understand Obama IS the President.. Again.
    yer right the opposition party shouldn't oppose anything this regime does ever.

  7. #27
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    Re: Do you feel it's wrong for these politicians to be taking this action?

    you 47%'ers are all going to end up on SSI, eating your dawg food with plastic sporks and paper plates
    then end up in front of death panels getting denied any medical care?

  8. #28
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    Re: Do you feel it's wrong for these politicians to be taking this action?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    I'm not asking "Do you agree with those in the congress like Rep. Ellmers stance?"...I'm asking "Do you think it's unreasonable or wrong that members of congress like Rep. Ellmers are taking these actions?"
    Thing is, aside from the Amendments 3/4 of the Constitution is centered around procedural rules for the ways in with the three branches of government need to function.

    I'm all for elected officials keeping their promises, but if we are even going to pretend to adhere to the Constitution, the shutdown in order to prevent/ defund an already passed law is illogical.

  9. #29
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    Re: Do you feel it's wrong for these politicians to be taking this action?

    Have you watched how the current regime has flouted the rule of lawl?
    How did you miss it?

  10. #30
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    Re: Do you feel it's wrong for these politicians to be taking this action?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    QUESTION: If a politician takes a stance that they campaigned heavily on and their constituents favor, should they be attacked for the act of taking the stance and why?

    There's been a lot of anger and resentment it seems aimed at the "tea partiers" in the Congress leveraging this "Crisis" as a means of attempting to stop/delay/thwart the ACA in some fashion. However, here's my question. Do you fault them?

    First, would most agree that it's at least somewhat reasonable to assume that our elected officials, regardless of them being Republicans are Democrats, in general believe that the things they believe regarding the government are what's best for the health of the nation be it long term, short term, or both? IE...Democrats aren't secretly cackling as they try to "destroy america" and turn us into a "dependent state", nor are Republicans sitting with Mr. Burns steepled fingers attempting to rig the system because they hate minorities and want to just make the 1% rich. That both sides politicians, by and large, act and support things because they honestly do believe (whether you agree with them or not) that it's in the best interest of the country.

    Second, would you agree with it's the job of a politician to represent his constituents and to be their voice in the government? And to attempt to uphold and follow through with those things upon which they campaigned on and gained the support of their constiuents over? While there's an understanding that sometimes things may change (with new info, the person no longer feels it's best for the country), some things may need to be lowered in priority, and sometimes they may not be successful...that in general, a politician should attempt to follow through with what they campaigned on.

    As such...takes for example Renee Ellmers. Renee is a Republican that won a seat in the House, knocking out a Democratic incumbant. Renee is a former nurse whose primary reason for getting into politics was her opposition to the ACA. The primary campaign point of her 2010 run to get into the house was opposition to the ACA and aiming to attempt to fight it in any way possible. She was reelected in 2012 with that still a part of her campaign. While I can't find information about just her district, 50% of her state feels that the ACA would make things worse (with only 29% believing it'd make it better) [Source].

    There should be no question, she honestly feels that the removal of the ACA is an important and necessary thing for the health of his country. There should be no question that she ousted a 7 term incumbant on the back of her opposition and pledge to fight the ACA. There should be no question that at least a reasonable majority of her constituents are negative, rather than positive, towards the ACA.

    So why, other than you PERSONALLY DISAGREEING WITH HER, should she not represent her constituents and what she feels is best for the country with her vote?

    The same goes for many of these others.

    I can understand arguing against their points. I can understand suggesting their logic is wrong. I can understand with you feeling their belief of what's best is incorrect. I can understand you being frustrated with them trying to legally stop something that has been passed or possibly putting a government shut down at risk.

    What I don't understand is the vitriol and anger vented towards them for daring to even DO this? Don't we typically WANT our politicians to do what they campaigned on and promised? Don't we typically WANT our politicians representing their constituents? Don't we generally WANT our politicians to attempt and have principles and stand on them?

    I'm not asking "Do you agree with those in the congress like Rep. Ellmers stance?"...I'm asking "Do you think it's unreasonable or wrong that members of congress like Rep. Ellmers are taking these actions?"
    Do you honestly believe that any of these politicians are acting in unison in the way that they are because they are honestly going after what their constituents want?

    Outside of some partisan hacks there isnt really anyone saying 'the shutdown is a awesome idea!'. Its all just bad politics on all sides.

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