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Our civilisation is pathetic. [W:459]

Is our civilisation pathetic?

  • Total voters
    51
shrubnose said:
Or maybe anyone who thinks that their dreams will ever be reality is foolish.
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Wel, its not about my dream. But you don't seem to pay any attention to what is written in here..

Its about the collective dream and a collective good society, rather than a corrupt society fully controlled by bastards and common filth like is currently in our governments.
 
ecofarm said:
Corruption existed long before money. Money does not create. It is a tool, a simple inanimate object. Blaming it for anything is stupid.
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Money is how corruption is implemented these days, and the driving force for corruption in our society.
 
Maximus Zeebra said:
Perhaps you should widen your debate and not get stuck in claims, unecessary details and dictating the opinions and correct formulation of others?

The box is your lack of looking at the bigger picture obviously, and being trapped in the box and a certain way of thinking.
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The details are necessary to understand your communication - without the details, I have no idea what you're saying. ARE you saying anything?

I'm not dictating a goddamn thing to you, I'm saying what you said made no sense to me.

Lastly, how do you know I am not looking at a "bigger picture?" Because you say so? Laughable.
 
shrubnose said:
Or maybe anyone who thinks that their dreams will ever be reality is foolish.
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So I'm guessing that liberals will never get universal healthcare. Oh wait, if things continue to go the way they are that is exactly what they will get. I guess dreams do come true.
 
ChrisL said:
It's so simple minded though. Sure it's nice to dream. :lol:
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The right to liberty is a dream? That is kind of sad. No, it's actually depressing as hell.
 
Maximus Zeebra said:
Money is how corruption is implemented these days, and the driving force for corruption in our society.
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And it's really not possible to know who is corrupt and who isn't until they demonstrate that, right? But when you have people who will vote for politicians regardless of their corruption and a congress who refuses to punish them harshly when they do break or skirt around laws, because they are concerned with their own interests, then what do you suggest realistically?
 
ChrisL said:
My guess would be young and idealistic. :) Not that there's anything wrong with that, but it's not realistic.

Hey that rhymes! I'm a poet and I didn't know it. :2razz:
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I sense a good deal of pessimism and bitterness. A hatred even, for ones fellow man.
 
Maximus Zeebra said:
Money is how corruption is implemented these days, and the driving force for corruption in our society.
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Money is an object, it cannot create or do anything. There has always been and always will be tools used for corruption. Getting rid of money does not get rid of corruption, that's stupid.
 
Henrin said:
The right to liberty is a dream? That is kind of sad. No, it's actually depressing as hell.
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Yes, your suggestions are equal to anarchy. People would suffer in that situation too. The only way any of your suggestions would ever work would be if people were perfect and completely trustworthy, and we all know that is just not the case. This is the reason why law and order came to be to begin with. There are places in the world where there is no government or a very broken government with not much power over the people at all, such as Somalia.
 
Maximus Zeebra said:
Do you agree with the statement (above)?

What a ridiculous world, full of ridiculous countries, and their naive peoples.


Every single person on this planet is ready to embrace a world society that makes sense. A society where we all get along and cooperate, a society where no one starves, where no one suffers. Everyone is ready to live in and contribute to a society where people do not live under horrific conditions. Everyone is ready to embrace a society where we all cooperate for a better world. Everyone is ready to embrace a society which is well organised and stable with a model that doesn't look like its made by monkeys. Everyone is ready for a society without all the lies, the deceit, manipulation and corruption. Everyone is ready to embrace a free society rather than be jailed and restricted by their governments. Everyone is ready to be free and open their mind instead of being narrow minded and controlled. Everyone is ready to embrace a society where everyone else is good and kind. Everyone is ready to live on a clean and wonderful planet. Everyone is ready to embrace useful change. Everyone wants quality. Everyone is ready for a fair economic system that make sense. Everyone wants everyone else to smile. Everyone wants a world of joy. Everyone wants to be safe. Everyone wants to experience fantastic and great things. Everyone wants to breathe clean air, everyone wants to drink pure water, everyone wants to eat delicious food. We all want to be happy. Everyone wants to live on a planet where everyone else is happy. Everyone wants a planet where everyone have all these things. Everyone wants to have a just society.


But no. We have a society full of corruption, our planet is turning into a horrible hole, we are ruining the only place we have. We fight wars AGAINST OURSELVES. We lie, we manipulate, we are cruel to each others. We live on deception. Everyone is trapped in a society with massive brainwashing, where they have no ability to think for themselves any longer. We let the governments take all power and leave only an illusion to the people. Our society look like its organised by monkeys and savages. People starve, die of thirst and suffer every single minute. Our society is completely unstable so we choose not to cooperate and rather work against each others. For anyone who is awake and not an idiot, our society doesnt make sense at all. We poison our own food, we pollute our drinking water and soil, we empty the oceans, we live in really ugly cities. The government is hugging us so hard that they are suffocating us. Our rights are taken away day by day. We only care about profit. Everything we buy is low quality junk. Most people either steal from others as a criminal act or as a legal job, most people think only of them self. Most people say cruel things to others and try to create disharmony since they have no harmony themselves. We all feel bad.

So f*** the US, they are now the worst.
...and Europe, we are on the same slippery slope.

We step on the shoulders of the poor and suffering, we abuse other nations, we wage wars against them and kill their families, we poison their minds with unsound logic, we pretend we have democracy and stand and step on freedom and choice. We do most of the above things. We suck actually. We are immoral bastards.

So, aside from the crooks in the US and Europe, how is the rest of the world? A damn slave labour camp, and those who don't do that, they suffer and die every day, from starvation or thirst or just horrid general conditions.


This is ONE planet. We are ALL responsible to look at ourselves as ONE people. If someone from outside looked at this place, YOU would be considered one of those idiots on a planet with such a pathetic civilisation.

Personally I am deeply ashamed to be a human being, being part of such a pathetic civilisation among people who do such horrendous things. I feel deeply ashamed that we let the people suffer, starve and die when we can EASILY do something about it. I feel sorry for all the dumb-asses who believe we live in good and free societies. Its probably because you only have trash to compare with.


Take your head out of the sand and vote.
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There's a reason why some people are called "Utopian Socialists". You want to take away all the natural negative consequences of bad behaviors and bad choices, and at the same time you expect that there won't be any bad behavior or bad choices made by virtue of the fact that there aren't any negative consequences.
 
ChrisL said:
Yes, your suggestions are equal to anarchy. People would suffer in that situation too. The only way any of your suggestions would ever work would be if people were perfect and completely trustworthy, and we all know that is just not the case. This is the reason why law and order came to be to begin with. There are places in the world where there is no government or a very broken government with not much power over the people at all, such as Somalia.
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Nice post, but people should stop ripping on Somalia. It was liberated during the last 2 years and is doing much better.
 
Henrin said:
So I'm guessing that liberals will never get universal healthcare. Oh wait, if things continue to go the way they are that is exactly what they will get. I guess dreams do come true.
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The Affordable Care Act is settled law per a U.S. Supreme Court decision.

When will the G-nO-P ever wake up and accept reality?
 
ecofarm said:
Nice post, but people should stop ripping on Somalia. It was liberated during the last 2 years and is doing much better.
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Just an example of what can and does happen. :shrug: There are always going to be people who take advantage.
 
ecofarm said:
I sense a good deal of pessimism and bitterness. A hatred even, for ones fellow man.
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Anyone who sees the civilization which we all live in as pathetic has serious problems which won't be solved on this thread.

I have no sympathy for this guy.

There are some problems on this planet, but not everyone is responsible for those problems or has any power to do anything about them.
 
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Maximus Zeebra said:
Wel, its not about my dream. But you don't seem to pay any attention to what is written in here..

Its about the collective dream and a collective good society, rather than a corrupt society fully controlled by bastards and common filth like is currently in our governments.
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Corruption is just a side effect of the problem. The problem can't be resolved since people are always going to be interested in oppressing and harming others. The problem with democracy is that it feeds into the weaknesses of people and does little to empower their strengths. The problem with democracy is rooted in people finding that they can use government towards their own ends usually at the expense of others. Just look at the ACA for example, the largest most talked about parts of the law are either involuntary servitude, forced commerce or using government to provide people individual services at others expense. If people want to actually get to a point where democracy works they have to stop pushing for government to fix their problems and focus more on rights and liberties. As it stands, we seem to be a part in a history where people don't want to be spied on and yet want government to keep them save at all times, don't want to be overly burden in taxes and yet want the government to provide them the basics in life, want liberty, but don't want it for their neighbor if they benefit from them losing it. Most people live in a constant state of contradiction and self denial.
 
ChrisL said:
Well, this is exactly how things were supposed to be in the US. Unfortunately, our federal government has grown exponentially and not enough people are willing to make a stand against it. As a matter of fact, we do have quite a large portion of the population which seems to have grown "dependent" upon the government for lack of a better word. They vote for these politicians who will take care of their needs, regardless of anything else IMO. These are the people who allow the federal government to have such invasive long arm policies, and their policies and laws take precedent over those of any states. When a state, such as Arizona recently, tries to enact their own rules and regulations, they are overruled by courts which side with the feds.
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It terrible, especially when you consider that the courts are no longer independent, but political. usually an arm of the ruling party.


ChrisL said:
I disagree. A poor person can be just as corrupt as any rich person. A poor person would have much more to gain and have more wants, therefore easier to buy. Besides, you have to think of the level of intelligence of such a person.
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I never said the person has to be poor, but they have to live under poor conditions while they are a politician.


ChrisL said:
And this is the most difficult part when you have any kind of government. It's not as if corruption didn't exist even back then.
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Corruption definetely existed back then. It might even be the reason that Socrates was killed. Because he spoke out against it.

Both of them were deeply unhappy about their government it seems.



ChrisL said:
But then, you have to think of those who would be disenfranchised, such as homosexuals who want to marry. If the majority would vote against them being able to be married? There are always going to be groups of people who aren't happy. The saying that you can't please everyone is true.
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I don't support a majority tyrrany. I support a system where an overwhelming majority holds a view. I also support what the good man Ron Paul supports, in regards to the state interfaring with peoples lifestyles. They shouldn't.

If homosexuals wants to be homosexuals, they can, but in their own private sphere.

Its not something that the state should promote or demote. Marriage and such should be up to the states to decide on. In that way, people who dont want to have gay marriage can move to a state with no gay marriage. Then we are all free to live in a place that suit us. Not in regards to marriage only, but a whole range of things.

Actually, that is a strong conviction that I do have. That the world should be under a mininal regime of global regulation and that ALL policies, laws and democracy should be LOCAL and regionally (regionally as in states in the US, and regions in Europe, like Bavaria in Germany).

That way, all regions and states can have completely different laws, and people can move to those regions and laws, fit best with their own views, rather than to have laws, rules and norms pushed down their throat.



ChrisL said:
I completely agree.

I don't think that's just a US phenomenon. :lol: People are people where ever you might be.
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I just mentioned is as an example, because you have the most cementing constitution and the most obvious politicians overtramping of it. But yes, unfortunately, its like that everywhere.


ChrisL said:
You keep singing the praises of this form of government, but I really don't see many differences that you've pointed out, and also the ones that have been pointed out would still leave some people feeling disenfranchised, so you have solved the problem from one point of view only.
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I don't support any of todays governmental models. But Switzerland would be the one that would be closest to my view.

I believe the world should seriously look into governance and organise that again. The current model does not work.
 
shrubnose said:
The Affordable Care Act is settled law per a U.S. Supreme Court decision.

When will the G-nO-P ever wake up and accept reality?
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I don't like how sitting presidents make SC nominations. I also don't like it when one side wants to do more vetting of a candidate, and the other side throws a hissy fit as if there is something wrong with that. I don't care if you don't like the republicans or democrats. If one side wants more investigation into a candidate, it should be done. THAT is how our system works. It's a delicate balancing act. In all actuality, none of us should favor one side more than the other. The only problem is this whole thing has gotten out of hand with each side showboating for election purposes. It's a very complicated and frustrating issue.
 
shrubnose said:
The Affordable Care Act is settled law per a U.S. Supreme Court decision.

When will the G-nO-P ever wake up and accept reality?
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The Affordable Care Act is not Universal healthcare and something being law doesn't really mean squat to someone having to accept it.
 
The Mark said:
The details are necessary to understand your communication - without the details, I have no idea what you're saying. ARE you saying anything?
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Yeah, what am I saying?

That is open for interpretation, in your case, being your interpretation. No point arguing about it, its not about winning or loosing. Thats not the point. I don't want to win this debate against you. I am not against you, and I don't care about winning. Its far more interesting just to talk about it.

The Mark said:
I'm not dictating a goddamn thing to you, I'm saying what you said made no sense to me.
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Ok. And I often don't get the point of several of the other participants on this forum.

The Mark said:
Lastly, how do you know I am not looking at a "bigger picture?" Because you say so? Laughable.
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Because you try to insult me.
 
shrubnose said:
Anyone who sees the civilization which we all live in as pathetic has serious problems which won't be solved on this thread.

I have no sympathy for this guy.
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It's basically misanthrophy, mixed with a healthy does of xenophobia, arrogance and quite frankly just being a plain old dick.
 
German guy said:
You utter many slogans, but no content.

Why are our democracies no "real" democracies? What would a "real democracy" look like? How do we get one? Details, please.
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Check some of the newer posts.

Generally the Swiss model is a good direction to move. But other concrete measures need to be taken..
 
ChrisL said:
My guess would be young and idealistic. :) Not that there's anything wrong with that, but it's not realistic.

Hey that rhymes! I'm a poet and I didn't know it. :2razz:
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Ofcourse a better world is realistic! It would be a shame not to think that.
 
ChrisL said:
And it's really not possible to know who is corrupt and who isn't until they demonstrate that, right? But when you have people who will vote for politicians regardless of their corruption and a congress who refuses to punish them harshly when they do break or skirt around laws, because they are concerned with their own interests, then what do you suggest realistically?
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To close Washington and create the government made out in the US constitution.
If someone is grossly neglecting their job, the first thing to think it: they should get fired.

If the whole government model is illegal, then it needs to be taken down and made legal.
 
ecofarm said:
I sense a good deal of pessimism and bitterness. A hatred even, for ones fellow man.
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You sense yourself then, because you do not know me, and have not read what I have written earlier, specifically in regards to such ridiculous accusations.
Its far the opposite actually. For those who do not care about the fate of society, they have utter contempt and hatred for others.

I care, and your accusation is completely out of line.
 
ChrisL said:
Yes, your suggestions are equal to anarchy. People would suffer in that situation too. The only way any of your suggestions would ever work would be if people were perfect and completely trustworthy, and we all know that is just not the case. This is the reason why law and order came to be to begin with. There are places in the world where there is no government or a very broken government with not much power over the people at all, such as Somalia.
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Freedom is anarchy. Lack of freedom is tyrrany.

its not about selecting one or another of all the models. There are many good things about each model that we can use. But all in all, its better to move towards a controlled and well functional anarchy model where people decide about their own lives, than towards a tyrranical model where people are controlled by a system. Be it with a dictator or without.
 
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