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Our civilisation is pathetic. [W:459]

Is our civilisation pathetic?


  • Total voters
    51
man, when they elect president of the world, i'm turning off the TV for two years in advance.

that being said, it is fairly silly that :

we have people on one side of the world who are starving and people on the other side of the world trying desperately to keep the weight off.

we have invented imaginary lines to separate us from each other, and then we shoot the people on the other side of the imaginary line in order to maintain the imaginary line.

pretty much every religion boils down to "hey, we should be nice to each other, because that's a good thing to do and it promotes a stable society from which we all will benefit." then we proceed to concentrate on killing others who have a similar religion but disagree on some issues.

also :

we have invented an imaginary currency, and for an activity to be largely considered worthwhile, it has to generate a lot of green pieces of paper.

the human race will come together if there's a significant and immediate outside threat. short of that, we will have to breed out the remaining vestiges of tribalism that is coded into our DNA. that will take quite a while, though.

we've done ok as a species; we're one of the few organisms on the planet in which getting eaten isn't a significant day to day risk. however, there's a lot of room for improvement. we have improved somewhat, but the stakes are much, much higher now considering ease of travel and development of weapons.

there are three major risks to humanity : famine, war, and disease. all are largely dependent on population density. honestly, everyone on the planet needs to stop having so many kids. if the population grows much more, you can be virtually assured that one or more of three is going to happen somewhat regularly.

edit to add : i don't consider our civilization pathetic; it's just in need of a few tweaks.
 
Clearly, everyone who voted no don't see the world around them objectively and do not eveluate it properly.

Its like critisising someones nation, regardless of which one, no one will agree, because they are deeply nationalistic.

People don't seek reality, people don't seek the truth.


Interesting...
 
I would hate to live in a society where everyone smiled and was nice to each other. Where is the fun in that?
 
If it's in my fenced in orchard, it's my tree, and if I see anyone picking fruit from it I'll sic my dogs on them.

Careful, those might not be your dogs either ;)
 
You take things far too literally. Perhaps people in your country cannot have free opinions anymore, but in Europe we are still free to have opinions without getting attacked in unconstructive ways.

yes and our opinions in Europe has caused thousands of years of war.
 
I suppose that means I am done with you as well.

Wish you all the best!

You have 6000 comments and received only 300 likes. There are people with several dedicated threads in the special place on this website that have a better ratio than your 20:1. This should tell you something about the quality of your posts.

This site is host to a great deal of people of all kinds of all political ideologies and all crazy thoughts in their heads. You have conspiracy theorists and sound political debaters. You have people who jump at every stupid, unverified idea and you have people who call for caution. You have all manner of political ideologies present, from the most rabid far-right and far-left people to the most centrists or non-comformists.
The fact that you garned such a bad ratio means that your posts appeal to the lowest and most infertile kind of participant in these discussions. The wandering idiot. The kind of person who comes in every now and then, usually after he thinks he figured something really smart out, posts about it, gets his ass handed to him by 95% of the population of the site because it wasn't really something smart... but something very stupid, and then leaves.

Now I'm not saying you're such a person, I'm just saying that your posts appeal to such people and not to 95% of the rest of the participants in this website who are a permanent or semi-permanent population. So this means that you should work on your debating skills and your topics if you wish to find fruitful discussions here and have the kind of fun that only debates can provide.

I'm telling you these things because I like zebras.
 
Clearly, everyone who voted no don't see the world around them objectively and do not eveluate it properly.

Your evaluations of the world that you've shared with us are not proper. 21 others (and counting) appear to agree with me about that. Zero others agree with you. At some point the numbers might indicate that you're missing something. Something about your evaluations is amiss.

People don't seek reality, people don't seek the truth.

I'm not calling you delusional per se, but people who do suffer from delusions commonly become frustrated that no one sees things their way, that everyone is therefore against them, and so forth. But that's because they believe things that just are not so.
 
1) People who buy these mobile computers "profit" too, in that they are voluntarily trading something they value less (money) for something they value more (that computer). If they didn't, they wouldn't buy it (and in that case the maker and retailer wouldn't profit either).
2) It is not rational to manufacture anything if there is zero opportunity to make more money than it costs. In fact that would be self-destructive.
3) Again, whether the maker of something profits or not has nothing to do with the product's usefulness.

People buy them because they have no alternatives.

Our economic model is deeply flawed, and only in it is point 1,2 and 3 true.

Actually, in this model, the drive for profit is also the drive to make the cheapest and worst products and sell it at the highest possible price. That is what point 3 is about. - Material cost/design etc - labour + maximum price = maximum profit.


I'm no computer industry expert, so if you really know what you're talking about, then perhaps you have stumbled on an untapped market and thus have a good business and/or investment opportunity.

I recognize quality when I see it and the lack of it when I see it.



You haven't thought this one through. The energy we use to produce and distribute food is significant, and shipping it to every human on the planet would be a waste of that energy. Plus you would artificially be enabling further overpopulation, which you complained about in a recent post. Conundrum!

Ooh no, but I have. We could even distribute condoms, sexual education and useful practical education alongside those.



You can say it a million times that there is no such thing as property rights, but that doesn't make it true. No wonder you're frustrated. Insisting that the world belongs to you when in fact it doesn't.

I can say it a billion times in thousands of different times. We all live on the same planet, and we all have the same rights to its resources. Just because someone confiscate them, kill for them and think they have the right to them, does not make it a justified model.


No one is "aiming" for a certain world. The world is the world. It is supremely arrogant to think that the world and all the people in it can, will or should bend to your will.

Its arrogant to think that not everyone should aim for a perfect world.

Actually, the world should not bend to my will, and it should not bend to the will of a group of monsterous bastards either (the governments). It should bend to ALL people in this world.


It is unhealthy to expect perfection and get bitter and angry when it doesn't happen. It's never happened and it will never happened. It leads nowhere other than to nihilism.

I am deeply ashamed to be human, thats it. I am not bitter about that, I just think its sad to see the state of the world.


I just recognize irrational bitterness, idealism and entitlement when I see it.

Good for you.


I recognise a bunch of things when i see it as well.
 
Here's my prediction:

Idiots, morons, malcontents, rejects, the ugly, the fat, the stupid and the just plain undesirable will continue to complain about society forever.
 
Wonderful. This thread has turned into personal attacks. Thats great.

Actually, that is my point exactly.
You people are sooo narrow minded you cant even see it.

Its tragic actually, and certainly one of the things that instigated this thread in the first place. Such people as you who engage in such things are the reason this world is functioning as badly as it does. You would happily let others suffer so that you can be happy. That is what the west is about. We are happy, and we let others suffer for it, without sacrificing that a thought.

We exploit them, we take their natural resources. We invade their country, we colonise their society. We force our values upon them, or try to at least, without ever looking into our own value. The west for sure is the very worst at looking at themselves.


Such a shame.

Makes me ashamed to be one of you actually.
 
People buy them because they have no alternatives.

Wrong. An alternative to buying a piece of crap is to NOT buy the piece of crap. If they really thought so negatively of the product, they would be irrational for buying it. They buy them because having it is better than not having it. It is worth it to them. They trade money voluntarily because they value that amount of money LESS than they value having a computer. That counts as "profit" on the buyer's side of the equation, as well as the seller's side of the equation. That's what fair dealing (a free market) is. People who value things differently voluntarily trading with one another such that both feel better off after the trade.

That is not only a good system, it is the best system, because all other systems invariably must introduce force somewhere, i.e., one of the parties is forced to accept trades they otherwise would not want to make.

Actually, in this model, the drive for profit is also the drive to make the cheapest and worst products and sell it at the highest possible price.

If people didn't want cheaper alternatives, they wouldn't buy cheaper alternatives, and therefore businesses that made cheaper alternatives wouldn't succeed. This is another indication that buyers of goods and services (and sellers of labor, i.e. employees) are profiting too, just in different ways.

I recognize quality when I see it and the lack of it when I see it.

I would be interested in hearing some of the goods/services you find to be quality.

I can say it a billion times in thousands of different times. We all live on the same planet, and we all have the same rights to its resources. Just because someone confiscate them, kill for them and think they have the right to them, does not make it a justified model.

This traces back to my comment about chain saws and cutting wood. Our laws recognize property rights, I own my property and pay taxes to my community to maintain my ownership, and as such neither you nor any other person in the world has a right to the resources on my property, nor the right to interfere with MY right to the resources on my property. I have the right to cut down every last tree on my property (of course, it is not in my best interests to do so, but legally I could, whereas you could not).

Its arrogant to think that not everyone should aim for a perfect world.

In no way is that arrogant. It is realistic. Whereas protesting and calling the world a failure because it's not perfect is bordering on delusional.

Actually, the world should not bend to my will, and it should not bend to the will of a group of monsterous bastards either (the governments). It should bend to ALL people in this world.

It won't. One man's liberty is another man's tyranny. We have to restrain some people's ambitions to protect the basic rights of others, and that means the world will never be perfect like you want it to be. The world does not bend to the will of any group of people. Even if it did, in some magical universe, then the people generally become the group of monstrous bastards.

I am deeply ashamed to be human, thats it. I am not bitter about that, I just think its sad to see the state of the world.

I do not mean this condescendingly: I sincerely hope you continue to examine whether it's appropriate or not to feel such deep shame.
 
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Here's my prediction:

Idiots, morons, malcontents, rejects, the ugly, the fat, the stupid and the just plain undesirable will continue to complain about society forever.

I thought those were the charachteristics of people who ignore the reality of this world.
 
I voted no.

There are a lot of good humans on this planet that strive to make change. However government issues like wars, or planetary problems maybe too big for some people but people try.

However if you are the type to call this planet crap and you aren't making any changes, you should kill yourself because you are in the way of progress
 
We exploit them, we take their natural resources... We force our values upon them, or try to at least...

Now check this out:

Neomalthusian said:
Neomalthusian said:
Maximus Zeebra said:
...and why would we cut down trees if we do not absolutely have to?
I absolutely have to.
Then I don't see anything wrong with that. Unless you are lying.
Well it's not really your business in either case, is it?
Yes it is. Thats my tree as well.

No, it really truly is not your tree. Do you see where you just criticized people for laying claim to others' resources... and then did exactly that yourself?
 
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