View Poll Results: Is our civilisation pathetic?

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  • Yes

    10 16.13%
  • No

    52 83.87%
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Thread: Our civilisation is pathetic. [W:459]

  1. #341
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    re: Our civilisation is pathetic. [W:459]

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    World government would make things worse.

    Look at the corruption we have already, in the various governments around the world (and in the UN, for that matter, which is as close to "world government" as we've gotten so far.

    Way I look at it, without the disagreements and such between governments, a world government would become the most corrupt government ever seen, given enough time.

    Or something like that.
    I think you are absolutely right. The potential for corruption would be grand. But that is not enough to prevent a good thing. We could be creative.

    On the other hand, research seems pretty sure on the fact, that the developing international situation will all but guarantee a world war probably with atomic weapons, unless we find a way to ensure security on a supra national level. This is not a very nice prospect.

    So one of the items on the agenda in constructing a global government would be transparency. Everybody involved has 24/7 surveillance and any reporter can watch or some such mechanism.

  2. #342
    Sporadic insanity normal.


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    re: Our civilisation is pathetic. [W:459]

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    I think you are absolutely right. The potential for corruption would be grand. But that is not enough to prevent a good thing. We could be creative.

    On the other hand, research seems pretty sure on the fact, that the developing international situation will all but guarantee a world war probably with atomic weapons, unless we find a way to ensure security on a supra national level. This is not a very nice prospect.

    So one of the items on the agenda in constructing a global government would be transparency. Everybody involved has 24/7 surveillance and any reporter can watch or some such mechanism.
    In such a situation, the government officials would go insane. Rapidly.

    No one can handle knowing they're being watched all the time.
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

  3. #343
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    re: Our civilisation is pathetic. [W:459]

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    In such a situation, the government officials would go insane. Rapidly.

    No one can handle knowing they're being watched all the time.
    Are you thinking of Nixon?

  4. #344
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    re: Our civilisation is pathetic. [W:459]

    Quote Originally Posted by earthworm View Post
    Of that, I'd NOT be proud.
    And, in being so negative, you are "turning off " people..
    I do this as well....not good..
    Right...

    That was more a year, right, sarcastically speaking.

    Ofocurse, that does not translate well in written form.
    Europe is illegally occupied by the US

  5. #345
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    re: Our civilisation is pathetic. [W:459]

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    Yep. Most intelligent people would agree that world government would solve many of the whopper problems. What is difficult is agreeing on the toolkit for making the collective decisions. How much say would you want to give a voter in India or Malawi over your minimum wage or marriage contract?
    Again, I don't believe it is about "they and us". It is all "us".We just have to find way together to make the world fair for everyone.

    If I buy a piece of electronic equipment, produced on what we in the west would call slave labour, and where the people who produce it have no choice but to participate in the slave labour, and hate their life and days etc as a slave. Then I would be contributing to slavery.

    A global mimimum wage would for prevent that everything becomes about the lowest common denominator. That a company can move from one place to another, just to exploit the desperate. But then again, I don't believe in a minumum wage, I believe in workers rights. If we have no minimum wage, ofcourse companies will move to countries with no workers rights, because its cheaper!

    On the other hand, it is good for those people to be able to work to afford basic things. But it is only good in a dysfunctional world where they can otherwise not afford basic things like food.

    We HAVE to have global human rights (including minimum workers rights, to abolish modern slavery).

    We CAN distribute food to everyone.

    We have the POSSIBILITIES now to distribute sexual education and condoms to everyone in the world who wants that.

    We COULD provide a practical education to everyone in the world.



    BUT BUT BUT.

    We have no global human rights, so countries are free to treat their people as they want, including cruel and terrible acts, EVERY DAY.
    We in the west buy products from producers who use slave labour, and we put absolutely no demand on them at all.

    In the developed world, we eat so much that we die from it. We dispose of enourmous amounts of food. In the poor countries they would sacrifice their life just to eat the food we dispose of, because they die from lack of food. These people cannot at all be productive, not physically, not intellectually, nothing, nada. They have to spend all their time worrying about food, often in total misery. But why is this, when the world produce more than enough food for everyone?
    Personally I believe it is because of the economic mode, because of profit etc. Capitalism WILL make sure one part of the population is rich and that one part is poor.
    I am not talking about free market economy, which we had for thousands of years already, but capitalism.


    We have a population disaster around the world. We have absolutely no control and the situation is dangerous for all of us. The planet is already overpopulated, we cannot manage ourself at all. With population growth out of control, it almost works as a guarantee that we never will be able to.

    In the old days, they sent missionaries from churches to the world for a variety of purposes. If we wanted to we could send a million people for 10 years to provide sexual education, provide ways to prevent unwanted pregnancy, provide some hope, basical knowledge and equipment to the ones in the world who needs that. And that sad thing is, that it would take less money than 1 year of defense spending in the US to do so. We would be able to do it for 10 years, 1 million "missionaries".
    If we double that and send 1 million teachers in addition we can make a real difference.

    We would prevent wars, disasters, hunger etc. Just for rediverting 2 years worth of defense spending.


    But its not really about the money, its about people, the equipment and time. But in our economic model, its not possible to think like that, because the only thing which count, is money.


    Which in my opinion is pathetic system.
    Europe is illegally occupied by the US

  6. #346
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    re: Our civilisation is pathetic. [W:459]

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    World government would make things worse.

    Look at the corruption we have already, in the various governments around the world (and in the UN, for that matter, which is as close to "world government" as we've gotten so far.

    Way I look at it, without the disagreements and such between governments, a world government would become the most corrupt government ever seen, given enough time.

    Or something like that.
    We don't need a world government, but we do need global laws.
    Europe is illegally occupied by the US

  7. #347
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    re: Our civilisation is pathetic. [W:459]

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    In such a situation, the government officials would go insane. Rapidly.

    No one can handle knowing they're being watched all the time.
    True
    And, I know the feeling, at times I have been watched...........not good.

    However, we are watched indirectly, all of us , to a lesser or greater extent....
    That people CARE is paramount.....both the watched and the watchers..

    Max, you speak the truth, IMO.
    But, the way in which you present it..........................
    We cannot be as perfect as you think yourself to be...
    Last edited by earthworm; 10-02-13 at 10:55 AM.

  8. #348
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    re: Our civilisation is pathetic. [W:459]

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    So one of the items on the agenda in constructing a global government would be transparency. Everybody involved has 24/7 surveillance and any reporter can watch or some such mechanism.
    This I like. I think about this all the time actually.
    How is it that we let our politicians surveillance us, but we never surveillance them, audit or otherwise keep them accountable?

    In a true democracy, the government have to be open. Open means fully transparent, no secrets (except ongoing sensitive operations that immediately after must be declassified), and where politicians MUST be held under the control of the people, one way is through surveillance.

    Now we have secrative governments, completely opaque, who never inform the people, who runs secret police, secret organisations, are never held accountable and are never audited by the people.

    Its an insult to everyone to call that democracy.
    Europe is illegally occupied by the US

  9. #349
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    re: Our civilisation is pathetic. [W:459]

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus Zeebra View Post
    Right...

    That was more a year, right, sarcastically speaking.

    Ofocurse, that does not translate well in written form.
    So, if so, try again, Max...
    In other words, I read your post and wonder "what is he saying ? "
    Elaborate , edit, then re-elaborate...

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    re: Our civilisation is pathetic. [W:459]

    Ironic.........
    The same percentage ( 87 ) believe that our civilization is NOT pathetic and those in Massachusetts like their Romney-Care...
    Rather meaningless as these are not the same people...
    And, I wonder , why all the fuss from the conservatives about ObamaCare ?
    Perhaps , the people matter NOT to the conservatives...

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