View Poll Results: Is our civilisation pathetic?

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  • Yes

    10 16.13%
  • No

    52 83.87%
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Thread: Our civilisation is pathetic. [W:459]

  1. #241
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    re: Our civilisation is pathetic. [W:459]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Well, this is exactly how things were supposed to be in the US. Unfortunately, our federal government has grown exponentially and not enough people are willing to make a stand against it. As a matter of fact, we do have quite a large portion of the population which seems to have grown "dependent" upon the government for lack of a better word. They vote for these politicians who will take care of their needs, regardless of anything else IMO. These are the people who allow the federal government to have such invasive long arm policies, and their policies and laws take precedent over those of any states. When a state, such as Arizona recently, tries to enact their own rules and regulations, they are overruled by courts which side with the feds.
    It terrible, especially when you consider that the courts are no longer independent, but political. usually an arm of the ruling party.


    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    I disagree. A poor person can be just as corrupt as any rich person. A poor person would have much more to gain and have more wants, therefore easier to buy. Besides, you have to think of the level of intelligence of such a person.
    I never said the person has to be poor, but they have to live under poor conditions while they are a politician.


    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    And this is the most difficult part when you have any kind of government. It's not as if corruption didn't exist even back then.
    Corruption definetely existed back then. It might even be the reason that Socrates was killed. Because he spoke out against it.

    Both of them were deeply unhappy about their government it seems.



    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    But then, you have to think of those who would be disenfranchised, such as homosexuals who want to marry. If the majority would vote against them being able to be married? There are always going to be groups of people who aren't happy. The saying that you can't please everyone is true.

    I don't support a majority tyrrany. I support a system where an overwhelming majority holds a view. I also support what the good man Ron Paul supports, in regards to the state interfaring with peoples lifestyles. They shouldn't.

    If homosexuals wants to be homosexuals, they can, but in their own private sphere.

    Its not something that the state should promote or demote. Marriage and such should be up to the states to decide on. In that way, people who dont want to have gay marriage can move to a state with no gay marriage. Then we are all free to live in a place that suit us. Not in regards to marriage only, but a whole range of things.

    Actually, that is a strong conviction that I do have. That the world should be under a mininal regime of global regulation and that ALL policies, laws and democracy should be LOCAL and regionally (regionally as in states in the US, and regions in Europe, like Bavaria in Germany).

    That way, all regions and states can have completely different laws, and people can move to those regions and laws, fit best with their own views, rather than to have laws, rules and norms pushed down their throat.



    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    I completely agree.

    I don't think that's just a US phenomenon. People are people where ever you might be.
    I just mentioned is as an example, because you have the most cementing constitution and the most obvious politicians overtramping of it. But yes, unfortunately, its like that everywhere.


    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    You keep singing the praises of this form of government, but I really don't see many differences that you've pointed out, and also the ones that have been pointed out would still leave some people feeling disenfranchised, so you have solved the problem from one point of view only.
    I don't support any of todays governmental models. But Switzerland would be the one that would be closest to my view.

    I believe the world should seriously look into governance and organise that again. The current model does not work.
    Europe is illegally occupied by the US

  2. #242
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    re: Our civilisation is pathetic. [W:459]

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    The Affordable Care Act is settled law per a U.S. Supreme Court decision.

    When will the G-nO-P ever wake up and accept reality?
    I don't like how sitting presidents make SC nominations. I also don't like it when one side wants to do more vetting of a candidate, and the other side throws a hissy fit as if there is something wrong with that. I don't care if you don't like the republicans or democrats. If one side wants more investigation into a candidate, it should be done. THAT is how our system works. It's a delicate balancing act. In all actuality, none of us should favor one side more than the other. The only problem is this whole thing has gotten out of hand with each side showboating for election purposes. It's a very complicated and frustrating issue.

  3. #243
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    re: Our civilisation is pathetic. [W:459]

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    The Affordable Care Act is settled law per a U.S. Supreme Court decision.

    When will the G-nO-P ever wake up and accept reality?
    The Affordable Care Act is not Universal healthcare and something being law doesn't really mean squat to someone having to accept it.

  4. #244
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    re: Our civilisation is pathetic. [W:459]

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    The details are necessary to understand your communication - without the details, I have no idea what you're saying. ARE you saying anything?
    Yeah, what am I saying?

    That is open for interpretation, in your case, being your interpretation. No point arguing about it, its not about winning or loosing. Thats not the point. I don't want to win this debate against you. I am not against you, and I don't care about winning. Its far more interesting just to talk about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    I'm not dictating a goddamn thing to you, I'm saying what you said made no sense to me.

    Ok. And I often don't get the point of several of the other participants on this forum.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    Lastly, how do you know I am not looking at a "bigger picture?" Because you say so? Laughable.
    Because you try to insult me.
    Europe is illegally occupied by the US

  5. #245
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    re: Our civilisation is pathetic. [W:459]

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    Anyone who sees the civilization which we all live in as pathetic has serious problems which won't be solved on this thread.

    I have no sympathy for this guy.
    It's basically misanthrophy, mixed with a healthy does of xenophobia, arrogance and quite frankly just being a plain old dick.
    Freedom of speech is not freedom from criticism.

  6. #246
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    re: Our civilisation is pathetic. [W:459]

    Quote Originally Posted by German guy View Post
    You utter many slogans, but no content.

    Why are our democracies no "real" democracies? What would a "real democracy" look like? How do we get one? Details, please.
    Check some of the newer posts.

    Generally the Swiss model is a good direction to move. But other concrete measures need to be taken..
    Europe is illegally occupied by the US

  7. #247
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    re: Our civilisation is pathetic. [W:459]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    My guess would be young and idealistic. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but it's not realistic.

    Hey that rhymes! I'm a poet and I didn't know it.
    Ofcourse a better world is realistic! It would be a shame not to think that.
    Europe is illegally occupied by the US

  8. #248
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    re: Our civilisation is pathetic. [W:459]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    And it's really not possible to know who is corrupt and who isn't until they demonstrate that, right? But when you have people who will vote for politicians regardless of their corruption and a congress who refuses to punish them harshly when they do break or skirt around laws, because they are concerned with their own interests, then what do you suggest realistically?
    To close Washington and create the government made out in the US constitution.
    If someone is grossly neglecting their job, the first thing to think it: they should get fired.

    If the whole government model is illegal, then it needs to be taken down and made legal.
    Europe is illegally occupied by the US

  9. #249
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    re: Our civilisation is pathetic. [W:459]

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    I sense a good deal of pessimism and bitterness. A hatred even, for ones fellow man.
    You sense yourself then, because you do not know me, and have not read what I have written earlier, specifically in regards to such ridiculous accusations.
    Its far the opposite actually. For those who do not care about the fate of society, they have utter contempt and hatred for others.

    I care, and your accusation is completely out of line.
    Europe is illegally occupied by the US

  10. #250
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    re: Our civilisation is pathetic. [W:459]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Yes, your suggestions are equal to anarchy. People would suffer in that situation too. The only way any of your suggestions would ever work would be if people were perfect and completely trustworthy, and we all know that is just not the case. This is the reason why law and order came to be to begin with. There are places in the world where there is no government or a very broken government with not much power over the people at all, such as Somalia.
    Freedom is anarchy. Lack of freedom is tyrrany.

    its not about selecting one or another of all the models. There are many good things about each model that we can use. But all in all, its better to move towards a controlled and well functional anarchy model where people decide about their own lives, than towards a tyrranical model where people are controlled by a system. Be it with a dictator or without.
    Europe is illegally occupied by the US

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