View Poll Results: Is our civilisation pathetic?

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  • Yes

    10 16.13%
  • No

    52 83.87%
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Thread: Our civilisation is pathetic. [W:459]

  1. #221
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    re: Our civilisation is pathetic. [W:459]

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Corruption existed long before money. Money does not create. It is a tool, a simple inanimate object. Blaming it for anything is stupid.



    Why am I not surprised that a guy who thinks that our civilization is pathetic didn't know that?

    Any ideas?

    Anyone who throws every member of any group into a bag and says that that are all the same has a problem.

    And if they refuse to recognize that fact they have another problem.

    I have no sympathy for those people.
    Last edited by shrubnose; 10-01-13 at 09:52 AM.

  2. #222
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    re: Our civilisation is pathetic. [W:459]

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus Zeebra View Post
    Switzerland is kind of a federation. Each state in it, is independent actually, practically. It is how the US model should have been. Power is decentralised into those states, rather than centralised as a national government. They do have a national government and it does have powers, but each state can choose not to follow any new law of that centralised government.

    I am not extremely strong in my understanding of the Swizz model, but as far as I know, most policies are managed at the state level, rather than the federal level. And those at the federal level is more a cooperation organisation for the states where they agree on common policies and implement them together.

    In Switzerland the people have the right to call for a referedum on ANY policy. This means that any point the people of the states, and I think also at a national level can vote to discard any policy, or implement any popular policy. Referendums are popular in Switzerland, there are many of them, especially at the state levels.
    Well, this is exactly how things were supposed to be in the US. Unfortunately, our federal government has grown exponentially and not enough people are willing to make a stand against it. As a matter of fact, we do have quite a large portion of the population which seems to have grown "dependent" upon the government for lack of a better word. They vote for these politicians who will take care of their needs, regardless of anything else IMO. These are the people who allow the federal government to have such invasive long arm policies, and their policies and laws take precedent over those of any states. When a state, such as Arizona recently, tries to enact their own rules and regulations, they are overruled by courts which side with the feds.


    I dont agree, I think it is the opposite. Money creates the corruption, and the lack of it would bring only people who have important views, into politics.
    I disagree. A poor person can be just as corrupt as any rich person. A poor person would have much more to gain and have more wants, therefore easier to buy. Besides, you have to think of the level of intelligence of such a person.

    But then again, I think politicians should not be the people in power, I think they should be idea makers, just like Plato thought. The philosophers should be the politicians. But unlike Plato I think the people should be the ones with the power.
    And this is the most difficult part when you have any kind of government. It's not as if corruption didn't exist even back then.




    Its terrible. In Europe we have many parties, but almost the same scenario as in the US. We have two "alliances" and they fight to get power, they fight to be right, and have absolutely no regard for what the people want.
    It's pathetic and disheartening for sure.




    Ooh yes, ofcourse. I did not mean values actually. I meant "state values", being laws that represents the general values of a majority. Not 50%, but a huge majority, lets say 75% for example.
    But then, you have to think of those who would be disenfranchised, such as homosexuals who want to marry. If the majority would vote against them being able to be married? There are always going to be groups of people who aren't happy. The saying that you can't please everyone is true.

    There are many cases where the government goes against the obvious values of their people when changing laws. This should not be possible.

    We need to vote and cement a certain foundation of our state. Like the constitution for example. That should be unchangable. Bill of rights being state values for example.
    I completely agree.

    Unfortunately in the US, now the politicians do not care about it anymore.
    I don't think that's just a US phenomenon. People are people where ever you might be.

    Sweden and Switzerland are very different, whereas Sweden have a faulty democratic system just like the US and most European systems, Switzerland have a different democratic system from everyone else in the west, and the world actually.

    i am not saying its perfect, but it is a good beginning. Switzerland do have their own issues, and the people is not fully in charge, which is why there are some policies that I am sure most Swiss people do not support.
    You keep singing the praises of this form of government, but I really don't see many differences that you've pointed out, and also the ones that have been pointed out would still leave some people feeling disenfranchised, so you have solved the problem from one point of view only.

  3. #223
    global liberation

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    re: Our civilisation is pathetic. [W:459]

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    Why am I not surprised that a guy who thinks that our civilization is pathetic didn't know that?

    Any ideas?
    My guess? Never had any and/or gave it all to the mosque and thinks that makes him not corrupt.

  4. #224
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    re: Our civilisation is pathetic. [W:459]

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus Zeebra View Post
    That's not for me to be expanding on. It is for everyone in this world to decide.

    But for that to work, we have to have actual democracy where the people openly partake and decide in the shaping of our society instead of some monsterously corrupt devils in a deeply corrupt political elite governenment. And yes, I am talking about the whole world, and in particular about Europe and the US where we have this delusion that we are a democracy.

    So, to start with, I would suggest we set up a real democracy.
    You utter many slogans, but no content.

    Why are our democracies no "real" democracies? What would a "real democracy" look like? How do we get one? Details, please.
    "Not learning from mistakes is worse than committing mistakes. When you don't allow yourself to make mistakes, it is hard to be tolerant of others and it does not allow even God to be merciful."

  5. #225
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    re: Our civilisation is pathetic. [W:459]

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    My guess? Never had any and/or gave it all to the mosque and thinks that makes him not corrupt.
    My guess would be young and idealistic. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but it's not realistic.

    Hey that rhymes! I'm a poet and I didn't know it.

  6. #226
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    re: Our civilisation is pathetic. [W:459]

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    Or maybe anyone who thinks that their dreams will ever be reality is foolish.
    Wel, its not about my dream. But you don't seem to pay any attention to what is written in here..

    Its about the collective dream and a collective good society, rather than a corrupt society fully controlled by bastards and common filth like is currently in our governments.
    Europe is illegally occupied by the US

  7. #227
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    re: Our civilisation is pathetic. [W:459]

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Corruption existed long before money. Money does not create. It is a tool, a simple inanimate object. Blaming it for anything is stupid.
    Money is how corruption is implemented these days, and the driving force for corruption in our society.
    Europe is illegally occupied by the US

  8. #228
    Sporadic insanity normal.


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    re: Our civilisation is pathetic. [W:459]

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus Zeebra View Post
    Perhaps you should widen your debate and not get stuck in claims, unecessary details and dictating the opinions and correct formulation of others?

    The box is your lack of looking at the bigger picture obviously, and being trapped in the box and a certain way of thinking.
    The details are necessary to understand your communication - without the details, I have no idea what you're saying. ARE you saying anything?

    I'm not dictating a goddamn thing to you, I'm saying what you said made no sense to me.

    Lastly, how do you know I am not looking at a "bigger picture?" Because you say so? Laughable.
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

  9. #229
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    re: Our civilisation is pathetic. [W:459]

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    Or maybe anyone who thinks that their dreams will ever be reality is foolish.
    So I'm guessing that liberals will never get universal healthcare. Oh wait, if things continue to go the way they are that is exactly what they will get. I guess dreams do come true.

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    re: Our civilisation is pathetic. [W:459]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    It's so simple minded though. Sure it's nice to dream.
    The right to liberty is a dream? That is kind of sad. No, it's actually depressing as hell.

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