View Poll Results: Is our civilisation pathetic?

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  • Yes

    10 16.13%
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    52 83.87%
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Thread: Our civilisation is pathetic. [W:459]

  1. #201
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    re: Our civilisation is pathetic. [W:459]

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus Zeebra View Post
    Personally I am deeply ashamed to be a human being, being part of such a pathetic civilisation among people who do such horrendous things. I feel deeply ashamed that we let the people suffer, starve and die when we can EASILY do something about it. I feel sorry for all the dumb-asses who believe we live in good and free societies. Its probably because you only have trash to compare with.
    I'm curious as to what form of government you have in mind. The bottom line is there are always going to be corrupt people, and the more power they have the more corrupt and heartless they become. That is why democracy and giving the power to the people is the BEST form of government; also a good reason to stand up for and protect ALL of our rights. And let's be realistic, people are people. You aren't going to change human nature.

    So I await your answer about which type of government you think would be better than what we currently have.

  2. #202
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    re: Our civilisation is pathetic. [W:459]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Just what system of government do you think affords more freedom to it's citizens?
    Switzerland have a far more democratic system than the rest of the western countries. That is a way we can move immediately and a system which is already possible for adoption.
    It is however not perfect and not fully democratic, but we can work on that. There are many concepts though, that can be applied to make our system more democratic.

    Plato for example thought that all politicians should live in poverty and lousy conditions, so that it would attract only those who are interested ideologically speaking. In many European countries we have problems with politicians who ride around in fancy car, attend champagne parties, ride private jets and generally ride their political position as some kind of status symbol.

    If politics become unattractive for people who are seeking it for the wrong reasons, that is another step we can take.

    In the US, the election system is deeply corrupt, and not really an election system, more of a selection between pest and cholera. Thats not how democracy is suppose to be. Actually, democracy should not be about parties at all, nor about politicians, it should be about policies. We should vote on policies in elections, not people. In proper democracy it is obvious that the people should be the ones who get to decide how we should move forward. It should not be dictated by our politicians and parties, and it certainly should not be held hostage and abused for election purposes.

    Another step we can take is to implement more permanent policies that cannot be changed very easily. We should nail some values into our states that cannot just be chanhed by the next party in power. All societies have values, and in many of those societies, these values are easily changeable, even though that is not in the interest of the people or what they want.

    Switzerland has that bit about the people voting on policies, although they also vote on parties and such garbage.


    There are tons of things we could do to give the people power instead of the political elite.


    Ooh, and my favorite part of Swizz democracy, is decentralisation of power. In Switzerland, each state have their own laws and can decide their own policies, and mostly only things that are necessary are centralised.

    This should work as a good example for both Europe and the US where we have excessive centralisation. In particularily in the US you have excessive federal centralisation. In Europe we have excessive national centralisation, where we should have regional decentralised power.
    Last edited by Maximus Zeebra; 10-01-13 at 08:59 AM.
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  3. #203
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    re: Our civilisation is pathetic. [W:459]

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus Zeebra View Post
    Its not about winning.

    Its far more important that we all are not loosing
    .








    Most of the people on this planet are not losers.

    But some are, mainly because they see everyone else as losers.

    What group do you think that you are in?

    Think about it.

    I really don't have time to sort you out, but you might want to do a little thinking about what you have ever done to make this world a better place.
    Last edited by shrubnose; 10-01-13 at 09:19 AM.

  4. #204
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    re: Our civilisation is pathetic. [W:459]

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus Zeebra View Post
    Switzerland have a far more democratic system than the rest of the western countries. That is a way we can move immediately and a system which is already possible for adoption.
    It is however not perfect and not fully democratic, but we can work on that. There are many concepts though, that can be applied to make our system more democratic.
    Such as? I'm not too familiar with the way Switzerland does things. Could you be more specific?

    Plato for example thought that all politicians should live in poverty and lousy conditions, so that it would attract only those who are interested ideologically speaking. In many European countries we have problems with politicians who ride around in fancy car, attend champagne parties, ride private jets and generally ride their political position as some kind of status symbol.

    If politics become unattractive for people who are seeking it for the wrong reasons, that is another step we can take.
    Okay, but that is just not realistic. You are going to get what you pay for, even more incompetence.

    In the US, the election system is deeply corrupt, and not really an election system, more of a selection between pest and cholera. Thats not how democracy is suppose to be. Actually, democracy should not be about parties at all, nor about politicians, it should be about policies. We should vote on policies in elections, not people. In proper democracy it is obvious that the people should be the ones who get to decide how we should move forward. It should not be dictated by our politicians and parties, and it certainly should not be held hostage and abused for election purposes.
    I completely agree, but those parties and their followers have completely taken over politics unfortunately. I would really love to get rid of both main parties.

    Another step we can take is to implement more permanent policies that cannot be changed very easily. We should nail some values into our states that cannot just be chanhed by the next party in power. All societies have values, and in many of those societies, these values are easily changeable, even though that is not in the interest of the people or what they want.
    Well the problem with this is that everyone does not share the same value system. Everyone votes to reflect their own wants, needs and values.

    Switzerland has that bit about the people voting on policies, although they also vote on parties and such garbage.


    There are tons of things we could do to give the people power instead of the political elite.
    Some good points but no real solutions that I can see. I'm sure Sweden and Switzerland have their own issues.
    Last edited by ChrisL; 10-01-13 at 09:02 AM. Reason: Oops, said Sweden instead of Switzerland. Give me a break, it's early! Lol!

  5. #205
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    re: Our civilisation is pathetic. [W:459]

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    I'd rather government protect the liberty for all it's citizens. Even that means people like yourself are unhappy for some strange reason.
    Well then, we feel the same. I'm staying. Civilization is better than it ever has been and my standard of living is beyond the dreams of just a couple generations ago. Self-righteous, self-absorbed, conspiracy theorist, fringe partisan malcontents can go.

  6. #206
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    re: Our civilisation is pathetic. [W:459]

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    stuff
    Perhaps you should widen your debate and not get stuck in claims, unecessary details and dictating the opinions and correct formulation of others?

    The box is your lack of looking at the bigger picture obviously, and being trapped in the box and a certain way of thinking.
    Europe is illegally occupied by the US

  7. #207
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    re: Our civilisation is pathetic. [W:459]

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    Most of the people on this planet are not losers.

    But some are, because they see others as losers.

    What group do you think that you are in?

    Think about it.

    Very constructive. Twisting my words and trying to insult me.

    What I said earlier still applies to you. How can you not have learned proper politeness and some elegance and grace in your 70 years on this planet?





    Ps. I never said people are losers, I said I don't want us to loose
    Last edited by Maximus Zeebra; 10-01-13 at 09:10 AM.
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  8. #208
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    re: Our civilisation is pathetic. [W:459]

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    Most of the people on this planet are not losers.

    But some are, because they see others as losers.

    What group do you think that you are in?

    Think about it.
    Wait..are you saying that you judge people as losers that judge other people as losers. Isn't that calling yourself a loser?

  9. #209
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    re: Our civilisation is pathetic. [W:459]

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    I'd rather government protect the liberty for all it's citizens. Even that means people like yourself are unhappy for some strange reason.
    Finally someone who nailed it. This is essentially the my whole point and a prerequisite for a good world.

    Many of the things in the OP is about that exactly.
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  10. #210
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    re: Our civilisation is pathetic. [W:459]

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Well then, we feel the same. I'm staying. Civilization is better than it ever has been and my standard of living is beyond the dreams of just a couple generations ago. Self-righteous, self-absorbed, conspiracy theorist, fringe partisan malcontents can go.
    Its easy to say something is a conspiracy theory when you don't want to face reality.

    In your country in particular has power centralised and government taken away your rights the last 15 years.
    Europe is illegally occupied by the US

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