View Poll Results: Will ObamaCare reduce healthcare costs and insurance preminums?

Voters
73. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes, ObamaCare will reduce healthcare costs and insurance premiums

    19 26.03%
  • No, ObamaCare will increase healthcare costs and insurance premiums

    45 61.64%
  • IDK/other

    9 12.33%
Page 5 of 8 FirstFirst ... 34567 ... LastLast
Results 41 to 50 of 77

Thread: Will ObamaCare reduce healthcare costs and insurance premiums?

  1. #41
    Sage



    Join Date
    May 2013
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:12 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    12,247

    Re: Will ObamaCare reduce healthcare costs and insurance premiums?

    Quote Originally Posted by francois60 View Post
    Two points about that:

    1) The promise was, "If you like your plan, you can keep it." A lot of plans that people liked just fine are not ACA-compliant.
    2) Yes, the plans are different and cover more, but that's small comfort for the guy who now has to pay more because his policy covers maternity care.
    My insurance company has remained the same for years. My coverage changes every open enrollment period.

    I am helping my mom (84) with her open enrollment. She has had the same insurance for 10 years. Each year we look to see how they tweaked her policy to decide if she should change to another option. Yup, different again. Some things a lot better, some things a smidge worse. She is going to keep the same policy.

    So yup, we keep our policies. But just different this year (like every other year)

  2. #42
    Student francois60's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Coral Springs, FL
    Last Seen
    02-12-15 @ 03:29 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    251

    Re: Will ObamaCare reduce healthcare costs and insurance premiums?

    It's not exactly the same thing. Insurance companies change their policies in their own interests, with an eye towards making them attractive for customers. The government is forcing insurance companies to cover various things for political reasons, and leaving consumers no choice to avoid coverage they don't want or need.

  3. #43
    Sage

    vesper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Midwest
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:35 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    13,866

    Re: Will ObamaCare reduce healthcare costs and insurance premiums?

    Quote Originally Posted by Visbek View Post
    1) Not the fault of the ACA, not by a longshot.
    2) No "policies of the left" specifically drove up the costs of medical school, or higher education in general -- if anything, cuts to state and federal funds for higher education drove those costs up.
    BS
    College tuition costs have gone up 945 percent since 1980. The increase in tuition places a heavy burden on young people and their families. What has made college tuition so expensive? Tuition prices are rising so quickly because of supply and demand. As demand for college increases, universities can respond by increasing either enrollment or tuition costs. Since most universities are limited in the number of students they can enroll, they have largely responded to higher demand by increasing tuition.

    Demand for a college education has increased partly because graduating college dramatically increases job prospects and partly because of government subsidies. Although many believe subsidies will make college more affordable, government subsidies actually contribute to rising costs. When you subsidize something, it's cheaper for people to consume. So people consume more of it and demand rises. A rise in demand will mean a rise in costs.

    Colleges have no trouble filling seats, even with rising costs, so they keep spending and increasing tuition. Improvements to campus facilities and the addition of more administrative staff make college tuition even more expensive without necessarily improving the quality of education students receive. We now know the root causes of rising tuition—promises of higher wages and increased subsidies. Cut the friggin subsidies and watch the tuition rates decrease!!!!!


    Malpractice is a very small part of health care costs -- it's around 0.11% of the total. In fact, the number of malpractice suits has been falling for years, as have the payouts. (Malpractice not cause of healthcare cost | Healthcare Finance News)\
    It isn't just the cost of malpractice insurance but the practice of defensive medicine being practiced to keep from being sued that has raised the cost of healthcare. Most studies on malpractice insurance I have read raises the cost of health coverage by 3% but it is this defensive medicine that covers the doctors' arses by ordering a bunch of very expensive un-founded tests that IS greatly increasing the cost of healthcare. When you have the threat of being sued hanging over your head with every diagnosis, the doctor tends to order the tests that were not really necessary in the first place to cover their arses.


    1) I'd say that it's the seniors who have control over government, since they are well-organized and strongly defend Medicare.

    2) What "advantages" are you talking about?!? Being refused coverage? Steadily increasing premiums? Coverage for boner pills?

    3) Medicare and Medicaid successfully hold down costs, because they pool all the enrollees, and thus have a very strong negotiating position with hospitals and doctors. In fact, a big problem with Medicare Part D (the prescription drug benefit) was that it prevented the government from negotiating with pharmaceuticals on prices.
    That is so much crap I don't know where to begin and needs a new thread for discussion!


    Good news! The new exchanges will make it easier for consumers to directly compare plans, offered by multiple companies, with an easy-to-understand format. It puts the health insurance companies into direct competition, in a transparent fashion.
    I don't know where you get your information but from what I have read, major insurance providers are bowing out of state exchanges such as Aetna, Blue Cross and others. There are a very limited number of insurance companies which makes it a joke to call it direct competition.
    Nothing about the ACA prevents interstate health insurance offerings being allowed in the future.
    If the government Democrats wanted to strengthen the insurance sector by allowing interstate health insurance to allow a free market to provide the needed competition that would naturally lower healthcare premiums, they never would have come up with this boondoggle called Obamacare that stifles it.


    1) Nothing you propose changes any of the incentives that are causing problems. E.g. Insurers will still refuse to cover people with pre-existing conditions, and/or refuse to pay for various conditions.

    2) A major driver of costs is, wait for it... the insurers. The hospitals set "chargemaster" rates, which serve both as a negotiating point with insurers, and are also what uninsured people pay. Nothing about what you're suggesting changes this system. ACA at least gets more people in the pool, which gives insurers more leverage to reduce costs. Plus, with less people uninsured, fewer individuals get socked with the full chargemaster rates. It's not ideal, but it is an improvement.



    The insurers have had years to get ready. And it hasn't cost them much -- surely much less than if, for example, a single-payer system was offered.

    I'm also explicitly, and now repeatedly, pointing out how insurance premiums have been rising steadily since at least 1999.

    And as already noted, the additional costs from covering people with pre-existing conditions are offset by the mandate. That's the whole point of the mandate -- to push more people into the risk pools. It is way too early to categorically declare that it can't work. And if not enough people sign up, they can always increase the tax penalties if absolutely necessary.

    In addition, insurers in Massachusetts have worked with this exact same system for years, and they're doing fine.

    So, in summary:
    • Your costs were going to go up anyway. Just like they've been going up for years.
    • The factors you cited are not, by a long shot, responsible for any increases in your personal health care costs over the past few years.
    • The insurers will do just fine. If anything, ACA is a huge boon to them, since they get more ratepayers and don't have to worry about being wiped out by a single-payer system.
    • Covering more people is a Good Thing.
    You may be a really nice guy but you are looking through this boondoggle with rose colored glasses.
    You really don't have a grasp on how big government is going to destroy another private sector in the economy. You a big government lover are obviously blind to the realities. The IRS for cripe sake is going to play a major role in implementing Obamacare. Jeeeeesus before it is fully implemented the IRS has already lost track of 67 million in spending on Obamacare.

    IRS loses track of $67 million in Obamacare spending, audit finds | Hawaii Reporter

    But hell what's 67 million when it's somebody else's money!

    Nothing personal but only a moron would want the IRS involved in something as personal as healthcare.
    Last edited by vesper; 10-02-13 at 12:47 AM.

  4. #44
    Advisor aberrant85's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    SF Bay Area
    Last Seen
    10-04-15 @ 04:01 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    594

    Re: Will ObamaCare reduce healthcare costs and insurance premiums?

    It will raise premiums, probably. But premiums are not the end of the story.

    Health care costs overall for the insured will be lower as a result of better coverage and more preventative care.
    "Obamacare delenda est"

  5. #45
    Sage
    Visbek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 10:46 PM
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    10,002

    Re: Will ObamaCare reduce healthcare costs and insurance premiums?

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    College tuition costs have gone up 945 percent since 1980. The increase in tuition places a heavy burden on young people and their families. What has made college tuition so expensive? Tuition prices are rising so quickly because of supply and demand.
    That's one reason, yes.

    However, the idea that higher education is a commodity whose price drops because of increased supply is deeply flawed. Students are not like onions or computer chips, and most schools are not for-profit ventures. A school will ideally want to maintain the same teacher-student ratio; many schools are limited in their capacity. "More students" means you need to build more facilities, hire more professors/instructors, and increase administrative staff. There are few (if any) economies of scale in education.

    Nor are "liberal policies" what drive some universities to spend on non-core facilities. Many schools are throwing immense sums at their football programs; that is rarely a liberal priority, nor do governments encourage schools to pay enormous salaries to their coaches.

    In addition, government funding like Pell Grants undoubtedly reduces the burden of tuition. Slashing those grants is not a liberal policy.

    Your analysis is completely backwards.


    It isn't just the cost of malpractice insurance but the practice of defensive medicine....
    That cost is likely overstated. Costs Of Defensive Medicine May Be Overstated : Shots - Health News : NPR

    Next....


    major insurance providers are bowing out of state exchanges such as Aetna, Blue Cross and others.
    Aetna, Cigna and United Healthcare have pulled out of some states; they're waiting to see how things will work out. Wellpoint / Blue Cross are in. The exchanges also now put smaller players on an even playing field with the Big Guys -- in fact, it may work out better for them, as there is now one central spot to get insurance.


    You really don't have a grasp on how big government is going to destroy another private sector in the economy.
    Sorry, but I've got a pretty good grasp and perspective on the issues. E.g. pretty much everything that you claim caused an increase in your own bills this year hasn't even started yet and/or won't affect your bills.

    In addition, "Romneycare" is nearly identical to ACA, and Massachusetts has done just fine. In fact, MA residents are fairly happy with the results. The program is, ultimately, a free-market process of conservative origins. It keeps the insurers in business, instead of wiping them out with a single-payer option.

    The health insurers have been well on their way to destroying themselves anyway. For years -- as in, long before ACA was even drafted -- they've been increasing their premiums, reducing coverage, and freezing more and more people out of their services. Employers have to pass more and more of the costs onto employees, and independents (freelancers, sole proprietors, small business owners) won't be able to get coverage at all. If that keeps up, the insurers will price themselves out of the market.

    And no, I'm not terrified of the Big Bad Government.

  6. #46
    Student francois60's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Coral Springs, FL
    Last Seen
    02-12-15 @ 03:29 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    251

    Re: Will ObamaCare reduce healthcare costs and insurance premiums?

    Quote Originally Posted by aberrant85 View Post
    It will raise premiums, probably. But premiums are not the end of the story.

    Health care costs overall for the insured will be lower as a result of better coverage and more preventative care.


    That's possible, but the evidence is spotty. Is it more expensive to treat 10 people with late stage breast cancer or to give 1000 people annual mammograms?

    Also, systems like Canada's seem to feel that triage care provides better value than preventive care. If you have an emergency, you get seen right away. If you want preventive care, you wait. That implies strongly that Canada doesn't see preventive care as cheaper than just treating emergencies as they come up.

  7. #47
    Pontificator
    iliveonramen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    On a Gravy Train with Biscuit Wheels
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 06:06 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    9,166

    Re: Will ObamaCare reduce healthcare costs and insurance premiums?

    Quote Originally Posted by francois60 View Post
    That's the contradiction within the law though. Only a few people will be paying in who were able to but didn't before. Not nearly enough to cover the millions of new free-riders created by the subsidies and Medicaid expansion.
    For insurance companies they are now getting 40 million additional policy holders and a large portion of them are younger/healthier individuals. Keep in mind...it's the government that is subsidizing the cost. The providers get the benefit of new policy holders.

    Now granted not my ideal situation. If the government is going to ensure everyone is covered I'd prefer them to just play the role of insurer but hey....that's socialism.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

  8. #48
    Pontificator
    iliveonramen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    On a Gravy Train with Biscuit Wheels
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 06:06 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    9,166

    Re: Will ObamaCare reduce healthcare costs and insurance premiums?

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    In theory. These are still for-profit insurance companies answerable to stockholders, too. That means they will try to wring every possible cent of profit they think they can get away with.
    I agree...the only reason I support Obamacare is because the alternative is not realistically universal healthcare. If it's repealed there's no way a more liberal bill passes...even if "Medicare for all" is insanely popular. It will be some minor reforms and back to the old way of doing business. Heck I could see deregulation efforts being pushed by the House. One of their main "reforms" for lowering prices is to allow across state lines competition...a race to the bottom as deregulated states offer cut rate prices by fly by the night insurance firms.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

  9. #49
    Phonetic Mnemonic ©
    radcen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Look to your right... I'm that guy.
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:05 AM
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    33,413

    Re: Will ObamaCare reduce healthcare costs and insurance premiums?

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    I agree...the only reason I support Obamacare is because the alternative is not realistically universal healthcare. If it's repealed there's no way a more liberal bill passes...even if "Medicare for all" is insanely popular. It will be some minor reforms and back to the old way of doing business. Heck I could see deregulation efforts being pushed by the House. One of their main "reforms" for lowering prices is to allow across state lines competition...a race to the bottom as deregulated states offer cut rate prices by fly by the night insurance firms.
    As much as it goes against my normal line of thinking, I support universal healthcare. I also think that Obamacare is just a step in that direction, though I agree with your point that it would be a mighty hurdle to overcome.

    Is it ideal? No. I just think it's the best possible option out of a lot of crappy options. My biggest consternation about Obamacare is that I feel it delays the inevitable. I'd rather we just suck it up now and get it done.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

  10. #50
    Student francois60's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Coral Springs, FL
    Last Seen
    02-12-15 @ 03:29 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    251

    Re: Will ObamaCare reduce healthcare costs and insurance premiums?

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    For insurance companies they are now getting 40 million additional policy holders and a large portion of them are younger/healthier individuals. Keep in mind...it's the government that is subsidizing the cost. The providers get the benefit of new policy holders.

    Now granted not my ideal situation. If the government is going to ensure everyone is covered I'd prefer them to just play the role of insurer but hey....that's socialism.
    But the previous complaint was that we needed this in part to reduce the burden on taxpayers of uncompensated emergency room care. Now we're giving the same people full insurance.

Page 5 of 8 FirstFirst ... 34567 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •