View Poll Results: Will ObamaCare reduce healthcare costs and insurance preminums?

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  • Yes, ObamaCare will reduce healthcare costs and insurance premiums

    19 26.03%
  • No, ObamaCare will increase healthcare costs and insurance premiums

    45 61.64%
  • IDK/other

    9 12.33%
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Thread: Will ObamaCare reduce healthcare costs and insurance premiums?

  1. #31
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    Re: Will ObamaCare reduce healthcare costs and insurance premiums?

    I wonder if anyone considers that the plans are not the same anymore, so it is difficult to compare apples to oranges.

    The funny thing is that Obama gets all the wrath.

    Where was all the wrath when insurance companies would dump patients when they got sick or would find obscure health tidbits to say a condition was pre-existing.

    Where was all the wrath when folks with long past histories of cancer (but now very healthy) were denied insurance?

    You know what I was told, "of course they pay attention to their bottom line, they are a business".

  2. #32
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    Re: Will ObamaCare reduce healthcare costs and insurance premiums?

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    Because it's insurance...the larger the pool the less the costs.
    In theory. These are still for-profit insurance companies answerable to stockholders, too. That means they will try to wring every possible cent of profit they think they can get away with.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

  3. #33
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    Re: Will ObamaCare reduce healthcare costs and insurance premiums?

    It's going to take several years to fully shake out.

    There will be individual anecdotes of savings and increased costs and those anecdotes will be shared by those who want to prove their own point.

    Keep in mind also, that there will be "tweaks" along the way. Government simply does not leave anything alone and allow it to work. No, there will be "adjustments", and adjusting down and/or simplifying is rarely how it happens.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

  4. #34
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    Re: Will ObamaCare reduce healthcare costs and insurance premiums?

    I have been informed that my health insurance will go up about 3.7% next year. Not sure if the ACA is totally responsible, but I would bet it played a part. You cannot expect insurance companies to absorb new mandates like preexisting conditions, no lifetime expenditure limits, carrying your child till 26 on your plan, more preventive care without increased costs.

    Inflation, and just increased costs in doing business in health care is probably part of the increase along with ACA.

    my two cents worth.

  5. #35
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    Re: Will ObamaCare reduce healthcare costs and insurance premiums?

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    Yes healthcare costs have been rising for years because of the increase in cost of medical treatment.
    I guess your computer works now.

    The evidence is abundantly clear that premiums have been rising since the 90s. The ACA only passed in 2010, and few of its provisions have actually gone into effect. Thus, if your insurance and/or medical costs skyrocketed in 2013, it has nothing to do with the ACA. Let's get specific, shall we?


    Let's start with the education of the doctor/surgeon. Upon graduation most are left with an exuberant amount in student loans to pay back.
    That's been the case for years. ACA also makes no changes whatsoever to medical school costs or student loans.


    Once he joins a practice or opens his own, he pays a very high premium for malpractice insurance.
    That's been the case for years. ACA does not alter malpractice insurance or lawsuits. It's also not a major driver of costs.


    Because of the complexity of handling government Medicare and Medicaid insurance, his office needs to be big enough to provide room for a group of office workers just to handle all the paperwork.
    Guess what? Paperwork for insurers is actually worse, because the insurers have spent years trying not to reimburse patients for procedures. The insurers have entire staffs dedicated to finding reasons not to cover someone or to pay for a procedure.

    The ACA does not increase paperwork for Medicare/Medicaid. What it does is give the states more funds for those programs. These changes have had absolutely no effect on any changes in your premiums or pharmaceuticals for the past 20 years.


    The more complex the government makes something, it always results in a greater cost passed down to the consumer.
    And yet, the ACA simplifies a lot of things. E.g. if I want to get insurance now, I may have to call a dozen insurers to get their rates, and I will have to hope that they do not regard my allergies as a "pre-existing condition" that prevents them from offering me insurance. If you've ever done it, you know it is a Byzantine process.

    With ACA, I look on one website, I get the rates for the plans, and I'm done. If I want to figure out my tax break in advance, Kaiser's calculator gives me a good idea (Subsidy Calculator | The Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation). Once people are used to it, it'll be easy. And that, of course, is what terrifies Republicans -- despite the core of ACA being a conservative free-market solution.


    In this case, office calls and in office treatments increase to help cover the overhead of a doctor's practice. And because of the nature of many to sue, often leaves a doctor ordering unnecessary tests to cover his ass. These are just a couple of examples why insurance premiums have been increasing.
    All of this has been going on for years, and has absolutely nothing to do with any increased costs you've seen over the past few years.


    Central to ObamaCare are requirements that health insurers (1) accept everyone who applies (guaranteed issue), (2) cannot charge more based on serious medical conditions (this is known as modified community rating), and (3) include numerous coverage mandates that force insurance to pay for many often uncovered medical conditions.
    Sort of.

    Insurers cannot redline applicants because of alleged pre-existing conditions (which are usually just a proxy for not wanting to take older applicants). This is a Good Thing, because a lot of people who actually need insurance are prevented from getting it, purely based on profit motives.

    They also cannot refuse to pay for certain real medical conditions. Again, if you had one of these conditions and your insurer refused to cover it, you'd be spitting mad. That problem, again, was generated by the profit motive of insurers.

    The "adjusted community rating" means that insurers have to use a very large pool as the basis for their assessments of risk. Since insurers basically have to cover these broad pools now, it makes sense.

    None of these things have taken effect yet. So once again, increases in your medical costs over the past few years are not the result of the ACA.


    This feckless set of rules allows people to forgo buying a policy until they get sick and need coverage (and then drop the policy after they get well).
    This is incorrect. The mandate is what gets as many people as possible into the insurance pool, and is designed to discourage people from doing exactly that.

    Or are you advocating for stiffer taxes for those who do not get health insurance?


    Insurers are adjusting premiums now in anticipation of the guaranteed-issue and community-rating mandates starting next year. That is why we are seeing such huge hikes in our premiums.
    Yeah, the problem with this claim is that they've been increasing premiums every year since at least 1999 anyway. If the ACA had not passed, your premiums would almost certainly be the same as they are now, if not higher.

    And so far, the reality is that the new rates are coming in much lower than expected. It's going to take years to see the full effects of the ACA -- and if Massachusetts is any guide, it won't be anywhere near the disaster predicted by critics.

    Plus, the ACA has in fact already required insurers to refund ratepayers when they spend too much on overhead.

    So, it is inappropriate to blame a law that has not fully gone into effect, for cost increases that you were almost certainly going to see anyway.

  6. #36
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    Re: Will ObamaCare reduce healthcare costs and insurance premiums?

    If premiums increase for most people, it's virtually impossible to quantify that they would have increased even more without the ACA.

    They like to do that around here. They add things like sales tax increases to the ballot with some of the revenue promised for "property tax relief". Then, our property taxes go up the next year anyway. When questioned, they say property taxes would have gone up even more had we not had the sales tax "relief".

    Ummm... how do we know that?
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

  7. #37
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    Re: Will ObamaCare reduce healthcare costs and insurance premiums?

    Quote Originally Posted by Visbek View Post
    I guess your computer works now.

    The evidence is abundantly clear that premiums have been rising since the 90s. The ACA only passed in 2010, and few of its provisions have actually gone into effect. Thus, if your insurance and/or medical costs skyrocketed in 2013, it has nothing to do with the ACA. Let's get specific, shall we?



    That's been the case for years. ACA also makes no changes whatsoever to medical school costs or student loans.



    That's been the case for years. ACA does not alter malpractice insurance or lawsuits. It's also not a major driver of costs.



    Guess what? Paperwork for insurers is actually worse, because the insurers have spent years trying not to reimburse patients for procedures. The insurers have entire staffs dedicated to finding reasons not to cover someone or to pay for a procedure.

    The ACA does not increase paperwork for Medicare/Medicaid. What it does is give the states more funds for those programs. These changes have had absolutely no effect on any changes in your premiums or pharmaceuticals for the past 20 years.



    And yet, the ACA simplifies a lot of things. E.g. if I want to get insurance now, I may have to call a dozen insurers to get their rates, and I will have to hope that they do not regard my allergies as a "pre-existing condition" that prevents them from offering me insurance. If you've ever done it, you know it is a Byzantine process.

    With ACA, I look on one website, I get the rates for the plans, and I'm done. If I want to figure out my tax break in advance, Kaiser's calculator gives me a good idea (Subsidy Calculator | The Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation). Once people are used to it, it'll be easy. And that, of course, is what terrifies Republicans -- despite the core of ACA being a conservative free-market solution.



    All of this has been going on for years, and has absolutely nothing to do with any increased costs you've seen over the past few years.



    Sort of.

    Insurers cannot redline applicants because of alleged pre-existing conditions (which are usually just a proxy for not wanting to take older applicants). This is a Good Thing, because a lot of people who actually need insurance are prevented from getting it, purely based on profit motives.

    They also cannot refuse to pay for certain real medical conditions. Again, if you had one of these conditions and your insurer refused to cover it, you'd be spitting mad. That problem, again, was generated by the profit motive of insurers.

    The "adjusted community rating" means that insurers have to use a very large pool as the basis for their assessments of risk. Since insurers basically have to cover these broad pools now, it makes sense.

    None of these things have taken effect yet. So once again, increases in your medical costs over the past few years are not the result of the ACA.



    This is incorrect. The mandate is what gets as many people as possible into the insurance pool, and is designed to discourage people from doing exactly that.

    Or are you advocating for stiffer taxes for those who do not get health insurance?



    Yeah, the problem with this claim is that they've been increasing premiums every year since at least 1999 anyway. If the ACA had not passed, your premiums would almost certainly be the same as they are now, if not higher.

    And so far, the reality is that the new rates are coming in much lower than expected. It's going to take years to see the full effects of the ACA -- and if Massachusetts is any guide, it won't be anywhere near the disaster predicted by critics.

    Plus, the ACA has in fact already required insurers to refund ratepayers when they spend too much on overhead.

    So, it is inappropriate to blame a law that has not fully gone into effect, for cost increases that you were almost certainly going to see anyway.
    Yep worked on my puter all morning. It's up and running ta dah!

    To recognize why healthcare has become so expensive is the key to bringing down the cost.
    Starting with education, ditch the policies of the left that actually make higher learning ridiculously expensive.

    Tort reform would bring down the cost of malpractice insurance and also stop a lot of unnecessary medical tests.

    Reforms to Medicare and Medicaid could lessen government’s control over the poor and seniors and give enrollees the same advantages as the rest of Americans at the same time cutting the cost to seniors and the taxpayers.

    Remove barriers to interstate purchase of health insurance. Creating more competition has a way of driving down costs.

    All these suggestions would drive down the cost of medical insurance and shrink big government control at the same time.

    You are also completely ignoring or should I state "blowing off" the overwhelming cost to insurance companies coming in just a few short months through guaranteed-issue and community-rating mandates. They are no longer going to be allowed to charge higher rates for high risk coverage and by law will not be allowed to turn anyone away. The new law requires that all insurance providers provide free birth control to women. Where in sam hill is all this money going to come from except through higher premiums for all? It's insane.

  8. #38
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    Re: Will ObamaCare reduce healthcare costs and insurance premiums?

    Quote Originally Posted by Smeagol View Post
    Yes, it should. If everybody in America has health insurance and competition for customers increases, prices should drop. However, the initial adjustments especially if some people putt off getting insurance right away and hospitals not factoring in a decrease if not elimination of people showing up with no insurance and continuing to pass those costs onto the insured ultimately seen in the costs of premiums, might temporarily make premiums go up slightly.

    I also expect the cost of treatment to drop as the insured will no longer be required to subsidize the healthcare of people who show up at the ER uninsured. This on top of people no longer putting off routine physicals that could easily catch problems in the early stages when they're less expensive to treat.
    Reality proves otherwise.
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  9. #39
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    Re: Will ObamaCare reduce healthcare costs and insurance premiums?

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    To recognize why healthcare has become so expensive is the key to bringing down the cost.
    Starting with education, ditch the policies of the left that actually make higher learning ridiculously expensive.
    1) Not the fault of the ACA, not by a longshot.
    2) No "policies of the left" specifically drove up the costs of medical school, or higher education in general -- if anything, cuts to state and federal funds for higher education drove those costs up.


    Tort reform would bring down the cost of malpractice insurance and also stop a lot of unnecessary medical tests.
    Malpractice is a very small part of health care costs -- it's around 0.11% of the total. In fact, the number of malpractice suits has been falling for years, as have the payouts. (Malpractice not cause of healthcare cost | Healthcare Finance News)


    Reforms to Medicare and Medicaid could lessen government’s control over the poor and seniors and give enrollees the same advantages as the rest of Americans at the same time cutting the cost to seniors and the taxpayers.
    1) I'd say that it's the seniors who have control over government, since they are well-organized and strongly defend Medicare.

    2) What "advantages" are you talking about?!? Being refused coverage? Steadily increasing premiums? Coverage for boner pills?

    3) Medicare and Medicaid successfully hold down costs, because they pool all the enrollees, and thus have a very strong negotiating position with hospitals and doctors. In fact, a big problem with Medicare Part D (the prescription drug benefit) was that it prevented the government from negotiating with pharmaceuticals on prices.


    Remove barriers to interstate purchase of health insurance. Creating more competition has a way of driving down costs.
    Good news! The new exchanges will make it easier for consumers to directly compare plans, offered by multiple companies, with an easy-to-understand format. It puts the health insurance companies into direct competition, in a transparent fashion.

    Nothing about the ACA prevents interstate health insurance offerings being allowed in the future.


    All these suggestions would drive down the cost of medical insurance and shrink big government control at the same time.
    1) Nothing you propose changes any of the incentives that are causing problems. E.g. Insurers will still refuse to cover people with pre-existing conditions, and/or refuse to pay for various conditions.

    2) A major driver of costs is, wait for it... the insurers. The hospitals set "chargemaster" rates, which serve both as a negotiating point with insurers, and are also what uninsured people pay. Nothing about what you're suggesting changes this system. ACA at least gets more people in the pool, which gives insurers more leverage to reduce costs. Plus, with less people uninsured, fewer individuals get socked with the full chargemaster rates. It's not ideal, but it is an improvement.


    You are also completely ignoring or should I state "blowing off" the overwhelming cost to insurance companies coming in just a few short months through guaranteed-issue and community-rating mandates.
    The insurers have had years to get ready. And it hasn't cost them much -- surely much less than if, for example, a single-payer system was offered.

    I'm also explicitly, and now repeatedly, pointing out how insurance premiums have been rising steadily since at least 1999.

    And as already noted, the additional costs from covering people with pre-existing conditions are offset by the mandate. That's the whole point of the mandate -- to push more people into the risk pools. It is way too early to categorically declare that it can't work. And if not enough people sign up, they can always increase the tax penalties if absolutely necessary.

    In addition, insurers in Massachusetts have worked with this exact same system for years, and they're doing fine.

    So, in summary:
    • Your costs were going to go up anyway. Just like they've been going up for years.
    • The factors you cited are not, by a long shot, responsible for any increases in your personal health care costs over the past few years.
    • The insurers will do just fine. If anything, ACA is a huge boon to them, since they get more ratepayers and don't have to worry about being wiped out by a single-payer system.
    • Covering more people is a Good Thing.

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    Re: Will ObamaCare reduce healthcare costs and insurance premiums?

    Quote Originally Posted by year2late View Post
    I wonder if anyone considers that the plans are not the same anymore, so it is difficult to compare apples to oranges.
    Two points about that:

    1) The promise was, "If you like your plan, you can keep it." A lot of plans that people liked just fine are not ACA-compliant.
    2) Yes, the plans are different and cover more, but that's small comfort for the guy who now has to pay more because his policy covers maternity care.

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