View Poll Results: Is it Fair Play to Hold the Debt Ceiling Hostage?

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    35 38.04%
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Thread: Is it Fair Play to Hold the Debt Ceiling Hostage?

  1. #1
    Advisor aberrant85's Avatar
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    Is it Fair Play to Hold the Debt Ceiling Hostage?

    Here's a rather frightening article about the repercussions of a credit default:

    Wall Street to GOP: Are you nuts? - Ben White - POLITICO.com

    "A brief shutdown would have some negative economic effects and could create political blowback on the GOP. But it would cause far less long-term damage than a default, which would likely send interest rates sky-rocketing, crush the stock market, devastate business and consumer confidence, and probably send the nationís economy hurtling back into recession if not depression."

    Let's say you and your brother go out for dinner. Your brother's behind the wheel. He wants Mexican, and you want Italian. You can't convince him and he can't convince you along the way. As you near a sharp curve, he keeps his foot on the gas and demands you give in to Mexican or he'll drive you both off the road.

    All bias aside, is this not what House Republicans are doing? They had two years in the last Congress to push their ideas. They failed to pass their agenda through the Senate and signed into law by the President. They lost seats in the election. They've had another 9 months to argue their ideas, with even less to show for it. Now that there is no time for debate, they are demanding their ideas be enacted or they will allow a catastrophic default on the US Government's debt.

    Is it out of bounds to demand this when you have not been able to convince your fellow Congressmen to support your ideas when there was time to debate them? Or is using the threat of disaster a legitimate political tool?
    "Obamacare delenda est"

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    Re: Is it Fair Play to Hold the Debt Ceiling Hostage?

    Yeah that is pretty much what is happening. Hard to believe more are not upset with this. If they get their way this time you can bet they will try it again. The Tea Party is the American Taliban.
    Under Capitalism man exploits man; under Communism it's vice versa. -John Kenneth Galbraith
    I have always considered it as treason against the great republic of human nature, to make any man's virtues the means of deceiving him. -Samuel Johnson

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    Re: Is it Fair Play to Hold the Debt Ceiling Hostage?

    The GOP has already stated that Social Security is next, then Medicare, then Medicaid. This is just the beginning of their hostage taking.

  4. #4
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: Is it Fair Play to Hold the Debt Ceiling Hostage?

    Quote Originally Posted by NIMBY View Post
    The GOP has already stated that Social Security is next, then Medicare, then Medicaid. This is just the beginning of their hostage taking.
    time to make the tenth amendment mean something



  5. #5
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    Re: Is it Fair Play to Hold the Debt Ceiling Hostage?

    All negotiations have some basic components. One component is leverage. No good negotiator removes the leverage he holds from the debate until a satisfactory compromise has been met.

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    Re: Is it Fair Play to Hold the Debt Ceiling Hostage?

    Why do we have a debt ceiling? If congress is just supposed to automatically raise the limit every time we hit the ceiling no questions asked it seems a silly thing to have. Yet, we have it. Using it as a negotiation tool may very well be the reason we have it?

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    Re: Is it Fair Play to Hold the Debt Ceiling Hostage?

    The tenth has already caused one civil war and is pushing us toward another.
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    time to make the tenth amendment mean something

  8. #8
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    Re: Is it Fair Play to Hold the Debt Ceiling Hostage?

    Quote Originally Posted by aberrant85 View Post
    Here's a rather frightening article about the repercussions of a credit default:

    Wall Street to GOP: Are you nuts? - Ben White - POLITICO.com

    "A brief shutdown would have some negative economic effects and could create political blowback on the GOP. But it would cause far less long-term damage than a default, which would likely send interest rates sky-rocketing, crush the stock market, devastate business and consumer confidence, and probably send the nation’s economy hurtling back into recession if not depression."

    Let's say you and your brother go out for dinner. Your brother's behind the wheel. He wants Mexican, and you want Italian. You can't convince him and he can't convince you along the way. As you near a sharp curve, he keeps his foot on the gas and demands you give in to Mexican or he'll drive you both off the road.

    All bias aside, is this not what House Republicans are doing? They had two years in the last Congress to push their ideas. They failed to pass their agenda through the Senate and signed into law by the President. They lost seats in the election. They've had another 9 months to argue their ideas, with even less to show for it. Now that there is no time for debate, they are demanding their ideas be enacted or they will allow a catastrophic default on the US Government's debt.

    Is it out of bounds to demand this when you have not been able to convince your fellow Congressmen to support your ideas when there was time to debate them? Or is using the threat of disaster a legitimate political tool?
    The electorate will hold the Republicans responsible and they are. They can do this and it will cost us billions of dollars. The best part of the last time the Repubs did this is that sequestration was initiated. Wowser, a 10% cut in Military Offense and a backfire to the Repub war hawks. A backhand upside the old cerebellum. I hope it happens again. More budget cuts to the military. Sounds good to me.

  9. #9
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: Is it Fair Play to Hold the Debt Ceiling Hostage?

    Quote Originally Posted by NIMBY View Post
    The tenth has already caused one civil war and is pushing us toward another.
    Kick over the wall
    cause governments to fall
    how can you refuse it
    Let fury have the hour
    anger can be power
    you know you can use it!



  10. #10
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    Re: Is it Fair Play to Hold the Debt Ceiling Hostage?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    Kick over the wall
    cause governments to fall
    how can you refuse it
    Let fury have the hour
    anger can be power
    you know you can use it!
    The real question is who is holding the debt ceiling hostage? There is a bill in the Senate which will fund government till the next crisis. Mostly what the Pres and the dems wanted, except for the about half of Obamacare which he has already put on hold or granted an exemption.

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