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Is it Fair Play to Hold the Debt Ceiling Hostage?

Is it Fair Play to Hold the Debt Ceiling Hostage?

  • Total voters
    75
jimbo said:
Correct. It's the 27th amendment. However, they could refuse their salary, eliminate the expense accounts. Eliminate vacations. Making an effort would get my attention.
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Allow their bar tabs to be called in.:lamo
 
jimbo said:
That's why the founders wrote the first amendment, So people could disagree.

If you believe in what you say, form a group of like minded people, collect a few dollars from each, and pick and choose those you want to help. I've got no problem with that as long as you don't force me to join your group, buy your product, or use my money for your charity.
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I've got no problem with you moving out of the US either. You are free to go. No one is forcing you to stay here.
 
polgara said:
The House asked for a one-year delay in implementing Obamacare. Not replace, not repeal, just a one-year delay. With all the problems currently becoming obvious with Obamacare, you'd think that a reprieve would be agreeable, and the thing could be fixed in the interim, instead of the current "learn as you go" technique. That was not acceptable to Obama, so we have a shutdown.

The House approved the CR on spending, so our credit rating should stay intact. What else can be done at this point? Obama seems to think he should get everything he wants, and the other side nothing? That is ridiculous, since the House representatives also listen to their constituents, as they should. We have a $17 trillion dollar debt hanging over our heads like Damocles sword, and cuts will have to be made, whether Obama, Reid, and Pelosi agree or not, because the debt will affect everyone!

Good evening, Jimbo. :2wave:
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Obamacare is the law and it is already funded and today it went into effect. Any problems it has can be fixed so what would be the purpose of delaying it for another year? Oh, thats right, next year is an election year and delaying until after the election would be a Republicans dream, especially if it helped them win the senate. Now why on earth would the democrats agree to that?
 
Moot said:
Obamacare is the law and it is already funded and today it went into effect. Any problems it has can be fixed so what would be the purpose of delaying it for another year? Oh, thats right, next year is an election year and delaying until after the election would be a Republicans dream, especially if it helped them win the senate. Now why on earth would the democrats agree to that?
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I too believe Democrats are stonewalling and helping this shutdown happen so their election chances will be better....nothing else makes sense except for there being politics behind all this.
 
iguanaman said:
I've got no problem with you moving out of the US either. You are free to go. No one is forcing you to stay here.
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No one is forcing me to stay, and I am asking no one to pay my bills or contribute to my chartities.
 
iguanaman said:
American has more than enough to pay it's bills, that has nothing to do with this hijacking.
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That is why we borrow half of what we spend.

I am in favor of paying our bills. I am not in favor of taking on more debt until we get that wed already have under control.
 
Thrilla said:
I too believe Democrats are stonewalling and helping this shutdown happen so their election chances will be better....nothing else makes sense except for there being politics behind all this.
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I don't think the democrats are stonewalling...I think they're just refusing to be extorted and rightly so.
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
what the house has passed as a spending bill is different then what the senate passed as a spending bill.

normally any differances are resolved in conferance commitees but it seems that one side is reluctant to go into conference committees.


Republicans Spent Year Blocking Budget Conference (VIDEO)
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The senate didnt pass a spending bill. In fact, since July, they have only voted on 2 bills, one to amend the Helium Act, and one to amend student loan interest rates. Theres no conference to go to if they dont amend and pass a bill.
 
rathi said:
The affordable care act is already the law of land. You don't "compromise" by "giving" someone half of what they already have.
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You compromise on anything and everything. Thats how politics works. The Republicans control the purse. If the democrats want something (continued funding of Obamacare), then they have to give something (a delay, some changes, etc). So what are the democrats offering?
 
Moot said:
What your link shows is that there hasn't been a House-Senate budget conference committee or report at all this year. See the column under "Conf. report". Your link validates what the democrats have been saying: Boehner has refused to appoint negotiators for a House-Senate budget conference committee to hash out differences and negotiate a compromise in the budget.
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Read it again. For there to be a conference report, the Senate has to first pass a version.

Government 101: How a Bill Becomes Law - Project Vote Smart

3.Vote - the bill is voted on. If passed, it is then sent to the other chamber unless that chamber already has a similar measure under consideration. If either chamber does not pass the bill then it dies. If the House and Senate pass the same bill then it is sent to the President. If the House and Senate pass different bills they are sent to Conference Committee. Most major legislation goes to a Conference Committee.
 
jonny5 said:
Read it again. For there to be a conference report, the Senate has to first pass a version.

Government 101: How a Bill Becomes Law - Project Vote Smart

3.Vote - the bill is voted on. If passed, it is then sent to the other chamber unless that chamber already has a similar measure under consideration. If either chamber does not pass the bill then it dies. If the House and Senate pass the same bill then it is sent to the President. If the House and Senate pass different bills they are sent to Conference Committee. Most major legislation goes to a Conference Committee.
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The Senate did pass a version of the budget resolution on March 23, 2013. Read your link again.
 
johndylan1 said:
All negotiations have some basic components. One component is leverage. No good negotiator removes the leverage he holds from the debate until a satisfactory compromise has been met.
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And when one side refuses to negotiate, more forceful application of leverage is required. :shrug:
 
Moot said:
The Senate did pass a version of the budget resolution on March 23, 2013. Read your link again.
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The budget bill doesnt matter. It doesnt fund govt. Appropriations bills DO, and the Senate has not even considered a single one.
 
iguanaman said:
You must be joking. There is a process to repeal a law and it has nothing to do with paying the bills to run a govt.. You must think we make up things as we go along. You would have chaos if that were the case.
Oh wait that is what is happening now. 800,000 unemployed overnight...good going House T's.
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Those who have been affected by the shutdown should receive all back pay, if DC follows what they have done in the past. Everyone suspected that a shutdown could take place, so they should not have been surprised when it occurred, and made plans for it. I have friends who work for the government, and they plan on enjoying their unexpected holiday from work!

It's unfortunate that both sides have decided to be childish and non-cooperative, but it is what it is. We'll get through it. No one except the administration is talking now about Obamacare being repealed. All the House asked for was a delay in its implementation for the people who now have to sign up. Obama himself has already delayed it for a year for small business, but you seem to have overlooked that, for some reason. :confused:
 
polgara said:
Those who have been affected by the shutdown should receive all back pay, if DC follows what they have done in the past. Everyone suspected that a shutdown could take place, so they should not have been surprised when it occurred, and made plans for it. I have friends who work for the government, and they plan on enjoying their unexpected holiday from work!

It's unfortunate that both sides have decided to be childish and non-cooperative, but it is what it is. We'll get through it. No one except the administration is talking now about Obamacare being repealed. All the House asked for was a delay in its implementation for the people who now have to sign up. Obama himself has already delayed it for a year for small business, but you seem to have overlooked that, for some reason. :confused:
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Good morning, Polgara.:2wave:

No funding for my contract, so today is my first day of furlough.:cool:
 
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Moot said:
The House never had any intention of negotiating a budget resolution with the Senate. None. Ted Cruz, the self appointed leader of the House made that perfectly clear last March.....


Senator Ted Cruz: Defund Obamacare or Shut Down Government
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Parker: Shutdown gives Boehner leverage

Suppose you are John Boehner. Faced with a Democratic Senate and president, he has only two points of leverage — appropriations and raising the debt limit — which were set in place by greater minds than all these present.
What Republicans hope to accomplish by tying demands to the debt ceiling is a grand bargain to include a package of entitlement and tax reform. Sound familiar? The president can refuse to negotiate, but at 3 a.m. when the phone rings and it’s Angela Merkel inquiring just what the hell is going on, it won’t be John Boehner’s phone ringing. It will be President Obama’s. That’s leverage. During the last debt-ceiling battle, Boehner managed to secure more than $2 trillion in cuts and no taxes.
That’s context. :peace


 
Jack Hays said:
Good morning, Polgara.:2wave:

No funding for my contract, so today is my first day of furlough.:cool:
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My daughter called to tell me the FDA was furloughed at noon yesterday in Houston. She's getting her house ready for sale, so she isn't unhappy to have this time off! :lamo:

Good morning, Jack! :2wave: Glad to see you as an AM poster for a change!
 
polgara said:
My daughter called to tell me the FDA was furloughed at noon yesterday in Houston. She's getting her house ready for sale, so she isn't unhappy to have this time off! :lamo:

Good morning, Jack! :2wave: Glad to see you as an AM poster for a change!
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Yup. I have number of errands that will be easier on week days vice weekends.
 
Jack Hays said:
Parker: Shutdown gives Boehner leverage

Suppose you are John Boehner. Faced with a Democratic Senate and president, he has only two points of leverage — appropriations and raising the debt limit — which were set in place by greater minds than all these present.
What Republicans hope to accomplish by tying demands to the debt ceiling is a grand bargain to include a package of entitlement and tax reform. Sound familiar? The president can refuse to negotiate, but at 3 a.m. when the phone rings and it’s Angela Merkel inquiring just what the hell is going on, it won’t be John Boehner’s phone ringing. It will be President Obama’s. That’s leverage. During the last debt-ceiling battle, Boehner managed to secure more than $2 trillion in cuts and no taxes.
That’s context. :peace
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I strongly suspect that nobody including President Obama will have to explain to the German leader how political blackmail works.
 
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