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Is it Fair Play to Hold the Debt Ceiling Hostage?

Is it Fair Play to Hold the Debt Ceiling Hostage?

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cpwill said:
:doh

The House has already passed it's budget. It is SENATE Democrats who are refusing to do so.
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Doh, the Senate passed a budget, too.....


"....."We have been pressing our Republican colleagues to negotiate on the budget since last March," Rep. Chris Van Hollen (Md.), the senior Democrat on the House Budget Committee, said during a press briefing in the Capitol. "The House passed a budget, and the Senate passed a budget. … Well, it turns out they weren't serious about getting a federal budget."

Van Hollen highlighted a Democratic resolution calling on Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) to appoint conferees to negotiate the 2014 budget.

"They refused to do that," he noted.

The Democrats accused the Republicans of eluding those talks for fear that any subsequent compromise would cause a revolt from the Tea Party conservatives in their ranks.

"Why would they do that?" Van Hollen asked. "Because you have to compromise in a budget negotiations." ....

Read more: Dems want 2014 budget deal - The Hill's On The Money


The ball is in Boehner's court and he has refused to negotiate the 2014 budget since last spring. And now here he is, holding the country hostage over an ideology that the country rejected and voted against during the last election.
 
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rathi said:
Do you truly not understand how a deal works? It requires that both sides walk away with something they want. In your so called "compromise" that you just described, what exactly are the democrats getting out of it?
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Funding of most of Obamacare. What are the Republicans getting? Do you truly not understand how a deal works? It requires that both sides walk away with something they want.
 
Moot said:
Doh, the Senate passed a budget, too.....


"....."We have been pressing our Republican colleagues to negotiate on the budget since last March," Rep. Chris Van Hollen (Md.), the senior Democrat on the House Budget Committee, said during a press briefing in the Capitol. "The House passed a budget, and the Senate passed a budget. … Well, it turns out they weren't serious about getting a federal budget."

Van Hollen highlighted a Democratic resolution calling on Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) to appoint conferees to negotiate the 2014 budget.

"They refused to do that," he noted.

The Democrats accused the Republicans of eluding those talks for fear that any subsequent compromise would cause a revolt from the Tea Party conservatives in their ranks.

"Why would they do that?" Van Hollen asked. "Because you have to compromise in a budget negotiations." ....

Read more: Dems want 2014 budget deal - The Hill's On The Money


The ball is in Boehner's court and he has refused to negotiate the 2014 budget since last spring. And now here he is, holding the country hostage over an ideology that the country rejected and voted against during the last election.
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False, the Republicans passed 4 appropriations bills. If you look at the status, they have all been pending in the Senate for 3 months. A budget is required, but not neccesary. Spending bills are neccesary. Why hasnt the Senate considerd the spending bills?

Status of Appropriations Legislation for Fiscal Year 2014 - THOMAS (Library of Congress)
 
jonny5 said:
False, the Republicans passed 4 appropriations bills. If you look at the status, they have all been pending in the Senate for 3 months. A budget is required, but not neccesary. Spending bills are neccesary. Why hasnt the Senate considerd the spending bills?

Status of Appropriations Legislation for Fiscal Year 2014 - THOMAS (Library of Congress)
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what the house has passed as a spending bill is different then what the senate passed as a spending bill.

normally any differances are resolved in conferance commitees but it seems that one side is reluctant to go into conference committees.
WASHINGTON -- House Republicans decided Monday that government shutdown or not, it was more important for them to keep trying to strike a blow against Obamacare. Having failed to convince Senate Democrats to go along, the Republicans resorted to seeking a "conference committee" to resolve the differences.

For Sen. Patty Murray (D-Wash.), chair of the Senate Budget Committee, the move is ironic. She has been trying for more than a half-year to go to a conference to work out dramatic differences between the Senate budget and the House version. Senate and House Republicans have objected, repeatedly.

But with the clock expiring at midnight Monday, and federal officials starting to shut down all non-essential government functions, the House resorted to seeking a conference committee to pass a spending bill, or "continuing resolution" that runs only through mid-November or mid-December.

Senate Democrats called that negotiating at gunpoint.

"We know going to a conference means that we have to compromise -- that's what a conference is," Murray said just before midnight. "But we're not going to do it with a gun to our head that says we're shutting government down and we're going to conference over a short little six-week C.R. We have to deal with the longer-term budget. We have asked many times to go to conference on that."

Indeed, Murray and her colleagues asked 18 times. They have been blocked by Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) and a group of tea party Republicans led by Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Texas).
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Republicans Spent Year Blocking Budget Conference (VIDEO)
 
jonny5 said:
Funding of most of Obamacare. What are the Republicans getting? Do you truly not understand how a deal works? It requires that both sides walk away with something they want.
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The affordable care act is already the law of land. You don't "compromise" by "giving" someone half of what they already have.
 
rathi said:
The affordable care act is already the law of land. You don't "compromise" by "giving" someone half of what they already have.
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Agreed. IMHO it is both irresponsible government and stupid politics to shut down the federal government and/or default on the debt over Obamacare. Is it an incoherent mishmash, likely to fail in many ways? Yes. But it is the law of the land, already passed and signed into law. Let it take effect, then campaign against it. That's why we have elections. The Repubs' current actions let BHO off the hook and shift focus from Obamacare implementation to Repub infighting. :peace
 
jonny5 said:
False, the Republicans passed 4 appropriations bills. If you look at the status, they have all been pending in the Senate for 3 months. A budget is required, but not neccesary. Spending bills are neccesary. Why hasnt the Senate considerd the spending bills?

Status of Appropriations Legislation for Fiscal Year 2014 - THOMAS (Library of Congress)
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What your link shows is that there hasn't been a House-Senate budget conference committee or report at all this year. See the column under "Conf. report". Your link validates what the democrats have been saying: Boehner has refused to appoint negotiators for a House-Senate budget conference committee to hash out differences and negotiate a compromise in the budget.



Congress considers the president's budget request...

In the next phase of the annual budget process, the House and Senate Budget Committees will hold hearings on the president's budget request. In the hearings, administration officials -- sometimes even the secretaries of the Cabinet-level agencies -- are called to testify, and justify their specific budget requests. Based on the hearings and the president's budget request, the Budget Committees will prepare a draft of the congressional budget resolution. After being amended by the full House and Senate, the congressional budget resolution will go to a joint House-Senate conference committee, where any differences will be resolved. The conference report on the annual congressional budget resolution will then be debated and passed by both houses of Congress...read

About the President's Annual Budget Request
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davidtaylorjr said:
Slicing up the ACA? Obama has done plenty of that don't you think? Unconstitutionally mind you..... That being said, a delay rather than dismissal was a compromise and they fund the rest of the Gov.
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For 11 weeks.
 
davidtaylorjr said:
If the Democrats would rather talk about a budget as opposed to a CR, I'm sure they house wouldn't mind. But the Democrats don't want to do that.
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the senate passed a budget a while back and so far nothing has been decieded upon in the house.

S.Con.Res.8 - 113th Congress (2013-2014): An original concurrent resolution setting forth the congressional budget for the United States Government for fiscal year 2014, revising the appropriate budgetary levels for fiscal year 2013, and setting fort

Independent Sector | Senate FY 2014 Budget Resolution
 
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
the senate passed a budget a while back and so far nothing has been decieded upon in the house.

S.Con.Res.8 - 113th Congress (2013-2014): An original concurrent resolution setting forth the congressional budget for the United States Government for fiscal year 2014, revising the appropriate budgetary levels for fiscal year 2013, and setting fort

Independent Sector | Senate FY 2014 Budget Resolution
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This is getting a little bit childish. Both House and Senate have passed bills. Problem is that neither likes the other's bill.:peace
 
rathi said:
The affordable care act is already the law of land. You don't "compromise" by "giving" someone half of what they already have.
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Incorrect. You do compromise by giving up something you already have or something you want in exchange for something you want worse.
 
jimbo said:
Incorrect. You do compromise by giving up something you already have or something you want in exchange for something you want worse.
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Except that the democrats aren't being offered anything at all, much less something then "want worse" than the ACA.
 
rathi said:
Except that the democrats aren't being offered anything at all, much less something then "want worse" than the ACA.
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They are being offerred no government shut down in exchange for a delay in the half of Obamacare that Obama has not granted delays.
 
jimbo said:
Incorrect. You do compromise by giving up something you already have or something you want in exchange for something you want worse.
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Compromise under the threat of government shutdown is not compromise, it is terrorism.

In retrospect, the "anyone but Obama" folks who turned into "do anything to prevent an Obama second term" folks who turned into "block anything Obama tries to do" folks.......probably should have thought about compromise in 2009,2010,2011,2012, and before October of 2013.

YMMV
 
jimbo said:
They are being offerred no government shut down in exchange for a delay in the half of Obamacare that Obama has not granted delays.
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That isn't an offer. Threatening to damage the nation if your demands aren't met is extortion, not compromise. Its reckless and destructive behavior that is totally unacceptable for an elected official.
 
year2late said:
Compromise under the threat of government shutdown is not compromise, it is terrorism.

In retrospect, the "anyone but Obama" folks who turned into "do anything to prevent an Obama second term" folks who turned into "block anything Obama tries to do" folks.......probably should have thought about compromise in 2009,2010,2011,2012, and before October of 2013.

YMMV
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I love how the party that has made its hay from being rock-solid intransigent for the last five years is somehow the victim of "no compromise" all of a sudden. Republican apologists will say ANYTHING to excuse the GOP's reprehensible behavior.
 
Kobie said:
I love how the party that has made its hay from being rock-solid intransigent for the last five years is somehow the victim of "no compromise" all of a sudden. Republican apologists will say ANYTHING to excuse the GOP's reprehensible behavior.
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Repubs have been no more reprehensible than the Dems.:peace
 
rathi said:
That isn't an offer. Threatening to damage the nation if your demands aren't met is extortion, not compromise. Its reckless and destructive behavior that is totally unacceptable for an elected official.
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Republican compromise offers are extortion and reckless and destructive behaviour, and "I will not negotiate: is acceptable negotiating tactics?

You may not believe this, but there are those that believe the funding of Obamacare is reckless and destructive to the country.
 
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