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Is it Fair Play to Hold the Debt Ceiling Hostage?

Is it Fair Play to Hold the Debt Ceiling Hostage?


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Yes, which is what I referred to earlier. The implementation was going to be a train wreck, partly because the implementation budget was gutted six months ago.


i just gave you what he said...thats all.

how you phased your words in an earlier post ,can lead people to believe that you stated, he never said the words....train wreck.

so we are just clearing things up .
 
Yeah, Washington operates in their own little world. They think us voters are just a necessary evil. Both parties manipulate the voters, districts and everything else to get people to vote for them. Then they do their own thing, their own party thing regardless of what the people think who sent them there in the first place. But then the problem is the people has the power to change things, but they don't. It seems to me the people love being stepped on and manipulated, I suppose that makes them feel good.

I used to think that the idea of revolution in this Country today was farfetched...now I'm not so sure! :eek: I believe most people hate being manipulated and stepped on, and will get behind a leader who advocates fairness for all. And I'm not talking about anyone in DC, either. We have seen how they operate, and they generally can't be trusted. It's happened before with the Bostonians dumping tea in the harbor to prove a point to England, and it can happen again when people get pushed too far, IMO. People will fight back, and that's scary! :boxer:
 
i just gave you what he said...thats all.

how you phased your words in an earlier post ,can lead people to believe that you stated, he never said the words....train wreck.

so we are just clearing things up .

My first post regarding the Baucus quote had the full context. But that was a few pages ago.
 
Playing with the debt ceiling is just too risky.

The world isn't that black and white.

Holding it hostage puts at risk the full faith and credit of the United States, putting in jeopardy not only your economy, but the global one.

I know people are pissed about spending and how much debt you're in.

But holding the entire global economy hostage to fix the US deficit is like trying to fight a fire by pouring alcohol on the flames.

Politically speaking we need to make the Dems and Obama cave, the Republicans have done so enough. It's on them for a default or prevention of funding since they are unwilling to compromise or be reasonable. Enough has to be enough.
 
Politically speaking we need to make the Dems and Obama cave, the Republicans have done so enough. It's on them for a default or prevention of funding since they are unwilling to compromise or be reasonable. Enough has to be enough.

The Republicans aren't looking for compromise, they are demanding 100% capitulation, 10 months after losing an election (badly). This shutdown is their baby.
 
The Republicans aren't looking for compromise, they are demanding 100% capitulation, 10 months after losing an election (badly). This shutdown is their baby.

Have the Dems offered to go to conference?
 
The Republicans aren't looking for compromise, they are demanding 100% capitulation, 10 months after losing an election (badly). This shutdown is their baby.

And honestly they should. They've given enough to the Dems, and the Dems have so miserably failed in stabilizing the budget. They've proven themselves inept and for the sake of the nation need to not jut pass another spending bill without fixing anything and keeping on with their destructive habbits.

Obama hit the nail on the head in 2006 when he was bashing Bush, and I think it also applies to him today.

"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a Sign that the US Government cannot pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies. ...Increasing America’s debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that 'the buck stops here'. Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and Grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better." -Barack Obama.

Just as he said, the buck needs to stop here only this time the presidential parties have been shifted.
 
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I used to think that the idea of revolution in this Country today was farfetched...now I'm not so sure! :eek: I believe most people hate being manipulated and stepped on, and will get behind a leader who advocates fairness for all. And I'm not talking about anyone in DC, either. We have seen how they operate, and they generally can't be trusted. It's happened before with the Bostonians dumping tea in the harbor to prove a point to England, and it can happen again when people get pushed too far, IMO. People will fight back, and that's scary! :boxer:

The thing is pol, you can have a ballot box revolution. But whom do you vote for? You're not voting for the person so much anymore as to a political agenda of both major parties. I do not think the majority of Americans like either parties agenda. I just posted Gallups political party affiliation and independents, those who dislike both parties are far in the lead over those who identify with the Republicans or Democrats. A charismatic third party candidate might stand a chance come 2016, if we are still around and he is rich like Perot was and willing to fight the political machines the two major parties have thrown up to protect themselves from any third party becoming viable.

It just seems to me, the American people are the ones getting lost in this political party agenda gamesmanship being played out in Washington. As far as I am concerned, a pox on both parties.
 
The Republicans aren't looking for compromise, they are demanding 100% capitulation, 10 months after losing an election (badly). This shutdown is their baby.

That much is certain.

I do not know if it the shutdown is "fair" - fair and politics are strange bedfellows.

However it is downright stupid and dangerous to do so.

Frankly it is more akin to terrorism.
 
It depends. If you're just negotiation numbers, and you're close, but one side won't compromise, then maybe. But maybe not. But if you're threatening to hurt the country and millions of Americans if you don't get your pony, which was legally given to someone else years ago...that is immoral and not what an ethical politician would do.

The house republicans have already compromised. The only people that refuse to give anything up is the senate and the president.
 
The house republicans have already compromised. The only people that refuse to give anything up is the senate and the president.

Do what we say or else is not compromise.
 
Do what we say or else is not compromise.

Even MSNBC admitted that republicans have moved away from their original position. All the Senate has done this entire time is reject everything the house has tried and offer up nothing in return.
 
Even MSNBC admitted that republicans have moved away from their original position. All the Senate has done this entire time is reject everything the house has tried and offer up nothing in return.

After months of one terrorist type position, they all of a sudden have a kum-bay-yah moment?


If this was the Dems doing this to the Republicans...where would your trust level be.

NO matter what they say...eith this crew it is all about Obamacare go away.

Well, healthcare in this country (especially for the working poor) has been broken for decades. Why all of a sudden would Repblicans offer any constructive compromise now?
 
Greetings, Pero.:2wave: I worry about the long term effect on our citizens of the relentless, near universal display of irresponsibility by our political class.:peace

When enough people say enough, things will change. It's happening all over the world, and with the American spirit of "I've had it, and I've taken all I'm going to," it might happen here. The people are watching what's going on in DC, and they are fed up with the childish behavior of our elected officials, and they are getting more and more disgusted with fingerpointing, instead of the cooperation that's needed to tackle our many problems, not the least of which is our ever-increasing debt load, which will affect us all! :afraid:

Good evening, Jack. :2wave:
 
The thing is pol, you can have a ballot box revolution. But whom do you vote for? You're not voting for the person so much anymore as to a political agenda of both major parties. I do not think the majority of Americans like either parties agenda. I just posted Gallups political party affiliation and independents, those who dislike both parties are far in the lead over those who identify with the Republicans or Democrats. A charismatic third party candidate might stand a chance come 2016, if we are still around and he is rich like Perot was and willing to fight the political machines the two major parties have thrown up to protect themselves from any third party becoming viable.

It just seems to me, the American people are the ones getting lost in this political party agenda gamesmanship being played out in Washington. As far as I am concerned, a pox on both parties.

:agree: :thumbs:
 
When enough people say enough, things will change. It's happening all over the world, and with the American spirit of "I've had it, and I've taken all I'm going to," it might happen here. The people are watching what's going on in DC, and they are fed up with the childish behavior of our elected officials, and they are getting more and more disgusted with fingerpointing, instead of the cooperation that's needed to tackle our many problems, not the least of which is our ever-increasing debt load, which will affect us all! :afraid:

Good evening, Jack. :2wave:

Good evening, Polgara.:2wave:

As usual, you have it right.:peace
 
More budget cuts to the military. Sounds good to me.
While I also believe in cutting some funding to the military, it is coming out of the wrong places. I'll give you an example of how things end up costing more anyway:

At The Basic School (our school for freshly commissioned Lieutenants), they used to have 110 Marines manning the motor transport section. Their responsibility is to transport Lt's in tactical vehicles to various firing ranges, land navigation areas, etc throughout the base. With the cuts coming down, they are now down to 80 Marines and a quarter of the trucks are in disrepair. So what is the solution? Easy. Make the Lt's walk everywhere right? So that is what they have done. Lt's walk to almost every range they go to. Since this has happened, lower extremity and lower back injuries have increased. This leads to health problems. This leads to VA claims. Take someone such as me. I have a foot injury due to logging what I'm sure is more than 30K miles on my legs. Don't believe me? I was a Drill Instructor and the Marine Corps did a study to find out how much we walked each day over the course of one platoon's training cycle. We all wore pedometers. The average came out to 33.4 miles a day. So we walk that for 90 straight days, 8 times over the course of a 2 1/2 year period. Do the math on that.....Anyway, I had to get treatment. It cost more than $30k just to get an MRI, x rays, physical therapy, and custom insoles for my shoes. After all, I have to be ready for the next war right? That $30K could have fixed those trucks couldn't it? It could pay a Marines annual salary to drive one. Instead, we will have the Lt's coming to medical in a few years with the same crap wrong with them as is wrong with me.
Where money SHOULD be cut is new programs. New vehicles. New aircraft. I think we're good there. Instead, politicians from BOTH sides of the aisle decide to vote for this stuff because A) It makes jobs in the their district and B) They receive campaign contributions from these people.
 
they are only being irresponsible, becuase you feel that way. other people do not support your position.

as to them being punished, that is why they are given only 2 years terms, to keep them closer to the people, if your correct they will be out of office, if your not they will retain their seats.

Are you saying there is no objective measure of irresponsibility in our representatives and that it cannot be determined through reason who is being irresponsible?

I have shown who is willing to forego using catastrophe as leverage, and who is more than willing to threaten it, and furthermore seems willing to actually go through with it. Sorry, but I am not sure how you define irresponsible. Give me an objective definition of irresponsible that you agree with and we can look together as to whether these actions would constitute irresponsibility by your definition of the notion. Shall we?
 
Sorry, you still don't get to use catastrophe as leverage, whatever your opinion of the functioning of the government. What if Democrats did the same with, say... doubling the minimum wage? I feel very strongly about that, too. Do we get to hold everyone hostage, or is it only Republicans who get to do that?

There wouldn't be a catastrophic lever at all had the bad spending policies been halted in prior years. However we are here and at some point it is incumbent upon a responsible class of politicians to say enough is enough. To continue capitulating to the overspending is the catastrophe.
 
There wouldn't be a catastrophic lever at all had the bad spending policies been halted in prior years. However we are here and at some point it is incumbent upon a responsible class of politicians to say enough is enough. To continue capitulating to the overspending is the catastrophe.

And they always say enough is enough when the other guy is in office.
 
This last March the Dems passed a budget in the Senate which Boner refused to allow deliberation on in the House. Your move.

All spending bills must originate in the house. check
 
Are you saying there is no objective measure of irresponsibility in our representatives and that it cannot be determined through reason who is being irresponsible?

I have shown who is willing to forego using catastrophe as leverage, and who is more than willing to threaten it, and furthermore seems willing to actually go through with it. Sorry, but I am not sure how you define irresponsible. Give me an objective definition of irresponsible that you agree with and we can look together as to whether these actions would constitute irresponsibility by your definition of the notion. Shall we?

do you believe that there are no americans who support what the GOP are doing?

you believe them to be irresponsible because of the position they are taking, however you must know their are others who see them as very responsible, and are glad they are taking the action they are.

so even though you see it as irresponsible, it is not that way in the eyes of other people.

as far as i am concerned, in my opinion, they can shut it down and keep it closed until they can understand, how to spend tax payers dollars, according to constitutional law.
 
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