View Poll Results: Is it Fair Play to Hold the Debt Ceiling Hostage?

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    35 38.04%
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    57 61.96%
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Thread: Is it Fair Play to Hold the Debt Ceiling Hostage?

  1. #81
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    Re: Is it Fair Play to Hold the Debt Ceiling Hostage?

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    Your candidate Romney said he wanted to close loopholes on the wealthy but when Dems actually do it, you scream. LOL If we are so broke how come we don't need that extra trillion, the wealthy sure don't. They have amassed 40 trillion in assets, a trillion is a drop in the bucket. But I guess we don't need the money THAT bad.
    Iquanaman, nothing wrong with closing loopholes but what you fail to recognize is that when doing so it is important to have fair taxation for businesses/ corporations to encourage economic growth. Without it, we have no jobs growth. We continue to have people signing up for welfare benefits. This can not be sustained.

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    Re: Is it Fair Play to Hold the Debt Ceiling Hostage?

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    Fact is Baucus did make a quote claiming it was a train wreck for crying out loud whether it be for purposes of implementation is irrelevant. It's a friggen mess! Back to April of this year.

    Baucus warns of 'huge train wreck' enacting ObamaCare provisions - The Hill's Healthwatch
    "Enacting the provisions" is not the same as claiming the entire bill is a "train wreck." Learn to read. Implementation of the law and the law itself, especially a law this complex are two different things, and especially since APRIL was when the GOP HOR defunded the implementation budget. I realize nuance is something most conservatives don't get, but show a shred of intellectual honesty, please.
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  3. #83
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    Re: Is it Fair Play to Hold the Debt Ceiling Hostage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    Yes, it is two separate things. They are two different pieces of legislation.

    The "funding the government" bill authorizes future expenditures. Raises the debt ceiling authorizes borrowing to pay current expenditures.
    Again they are not separate.They are related.Raising the debt ceiling is asking to borrow more money to fund the government.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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    Re: Is it Fair Play to Hold the Debt Ceiling Hostage?

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Again they are not separate.They are related.Raising the debt ceiling is asking to borrow more money to fund the government.
    Again, you're wrong. They are two completely different pieces of legislation, and two entirely separate things.
    Freedom of speech is not freedom from criticism.

  5. #85
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    Re: Is it Fair Play to Hold the Debt Ceiling Hostage?

    No, it isn't. It's basically blackmail writ large.

    The republicans aren't entirely to blame though, since Congress refuses to pass a budget that would avoid this for a longer amount of time.
    If you build a man a fire, he'll be warm for a day.

    If you set a man on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

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    Re: Is it Fair Play to Hold the Debt Ceiling Hostage?

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Will the repubs never learn? They will continue to will themselves into oblivion by engaging in silly political games. The American people aren't buying their gamesmanship....
    Well, they pretty much damaged the party for good when they showed us how they really operate prior to the election. That display of childishness and dishonesty was their defining moment. Even if you don't like Ron Paul, you cannot ignore their mockery of the election process. They obviously carry that same behavior right into the oval office if elected. Zero integrity.

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    Re: Is it Fair Play to Hold the Debt Ceiling Hostage?

    Quote Originally Posted by sKiTzo View Post
    Well, they pretty much damaged the party for good when they showed us how they really operate prior to the election. That display of childishness and dishonesty was their defining moment. Even if you don't like Ron Paul, you cannot ignore their mockery of the election process. They obviously carry that same behavior right into the oval office if elected. Zero integrity.
    Paul didn't have the delgates to win the nomination, and to be frank I really don't have much use for Ron Paul. That said, you're absolutely right regarding how the GOP treated him at the convention. Like him or not, he is a guy who (outside of becoming a Republican in the first place, since that was the only way he could ever get elected) stuck by his principles and had the balls to tell the GOP establishment how wrong they were on a number of issues, and they made a public spectacle of attempting to put him "in his place," so to speak. The GOP lost a lot of young voters by sticking it to Paul the way they did.
    Freedom of speech is not freedom from criticism.

  8. #88
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    Re: Is it Fair Play to Hold the Debt Ceiling Hostage?

    Quote Originally Posted by aberrant85 View Post
    Here's a rather frightening article about the repercussions of a credit default:

    Wall Street to GOP: Are you nuts? - Ben White - POLITICO.com

    "A brief shutdown would have some negative economic effects and could create political blowback on the GOP. But it would cause far less long-term damage than a default, which would likely send interest rates sky-rocketing, crush the stock market, devastate business and consumer confidence, and probably send the nationís economy hurtling back into recession if not depression."

    Let's say you and your brother go out for dinner. Your brother's behind the wheel. He wants Mexican, and you want Italian. You can't convince him and he can't convince you along the way. As you near a sharp curve, he keeps his foot on the gas and demands you give in to Mexican or he'll drive you both off the road.

    All bias aside, is this not what House Republicans are doing? They had two years in the last Congress to push their ideas. They failed to pass their agenda through the Senate and signed into law by the President. They lost seats in the election. They've had another 9 months to argue their ideas, with even less to show for it. Now that there is no time for debate, they are demanding their ideas be enacted or they will allow a catastrophic default on the US Government's debt.

    Is it out of bounds to demand this when you have not been able to convince your fellow Congressmen to support your ideas when there was time to debate them? Or is using the threat of disaster a legitimate political tool?
    Absolutely. If you are of the belief that the debt ceiling is an issue that threatens this country, our way of life, standard of living, or whatever. Its fair game and it accomplishes a few thing. One, it advocates your point of view that this is an issue, gets it on the news, gets people talking and thinking about it. Second, you might get something you consider important accomplished.

    I would say for those with that point of view, this is a critical issue for them and using it as a political tool is not at all cynical, but a smart play.

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    Re: Is it Fair Play to Hold the Debt Ceiling Hostage?

    Quote Originally Posted by molten_dragon View Post
    No, it isn't. It's basically blackmail writ large.

    The republicans aren't entirely to blame though, since Congress refuses to pass a budget that would avoid this for a longer amount of time.
    I prefer the term "Extortion," but yeah, "blackmail" works too.
    Freedom of speech is not freedom from criticism.

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    Re: Is it Fair Play to Hold the Debt Ceiling Hostage?

    All's fair in Love and War. We all know that. When it comes to dealing with the Leftists in this nation, it should always be treated as a WAR. It's that simple.

    I have no problem with the Republicans doing this. In fact I have more problems with the supposed conservatives who will not support this. I'd rather see this nation turn into a third world cesspool than the Liberal/Socialist state that it has been becoming for the last century.

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